For all ye Kubuntu/kde4 wairy

[blackbelt_jones]

Re: For all ye Kubuntu/kde4 wairy

I have been reading a lot of lots over the last few months, and especially since the release of II (8.10), bashing kubuntu in general and kde4 in specifically for kde4 and its inclusion in Kubuntu.

So I thought I would share this tidbit with you:
http://weblog.obso1337.org/2008/on-d...buntu-and-kde/

As always: enjoy

Arrogant and patronizing. You know, I've made the leap to KDE4.2, and, I am totally in love with it, and this article STILL pisses me off! Whenever these guys start talking about "the future of KDE" , it always sounds vaguely fascist, like we're all supposed to stand up and start singing "Tomorrow belongs to me".

I love Ubuntu, I love KDE... so why do I always find myself hating Kubuntu? "We're a KDE distro." Really, how many KDE distros are there? They're the only one I can name, they have their own identity, and that means they can never just slap KDE on the distro and let me make my own choices like every other distro does. They're just so self aware, so busy. No other distro makes as many choices for me. They're control freaks.

Hmmm. Yeah, I guess that article really DID piss me off! I may need to go back to Debian, or maybe opensuse. Or maybe I should just run Ubuntu and see if I can compile my own KDE 4.2

[blackbelt_jones]

Re: For all ye Kubuntu/kde4 wairy

I have been reading a lot of lots over the last few months, and especially since the release of II (8.10), bashing kubuntu in general and kde4 in specifically for kde4 and its inclusion in Kubuntu.

So I thought I would share this tidbit with you:
http://weblog.obso1337.org/2008/on-d...buntu-and-kde/

As always: enjoy

Of course, no one really objected to the inclusion of KDE4, it was the exclusion of KDE3. This article is a great example of how KDE4 has sort of become a cult among Kubuntu developers, a kind of Dogma, and I think they've decided to dictate to the community, in a patently dishonest way. I've seen misinformation on the wiki about the prospects for future releases of KDE3. (Taken down after I objected.) And now I don't believe them when they say that the most popular KDE distro on earth couldn't support a KDE3 repository, when some guy with a server got one up in about a day after intrepid was released.

That was taken down. The KDE developer who responded when I posted about it and the guy who had gave two completely different stories about why that happened. He says it was Kubuntu's idea, the developer said that he had come to Kubuntu asking for help or something.

Yeah, it all sounds crazy. I don't think anyone should take my word on any of this, and I myself need to look further before I draw real conclusions. This is all speculation. But even though I had gotten pretty content with KDE4.2, I just can't use Kubuntu anymore. I've gone back to Debian.

[claydoh]

Re: For all ye Kubuntu/kde4 wairy

What is it with the cult thing? Kinda ridiculous imo. You take some of us defending something we like against the repeated attacks (too strong a word there) from basically the same people as making it a cult? Defending the decision made quite some time ago now, a decision based on many factors? It doesn't mean any of us dislike, disavow or ignore KDE3 or its users, not one of us does.

As to the pearsoncomputing repo, I was the person who initially suggested to him to go speak with the devs for advice and assistance. And to try out doing a ppa for better availability and exposure, and possible contributions from others.

I got the impression that he wanted full control of the whole thing.

The devs asked him to take down his original repo when it became apparent that his KDE3 packages completely wiped out KDE4, and made upgrading/updating/security updating a possible disaster with his package naming and removal of KDE4. That's it. I never see him in #kubuntu-dev, or in the relevant mailing lists, btw

He uses a ppa now, and there seems to be some work being done regularly, which is a good sign

Yeah, its all crazy. Especially all the flack seems to have come way, way, after the decisions were made. Useless flack as there are plenty of places to get and use KDE3, yet many still feel the need to stir things up instead of moving on. One could call that a cult

Debian is in the next aisle over, Mepis is down just past it, and opneSUSE and PCLinuxOS are on the next floor along with Mandriva

Happy Shopping

[blackbelt_jones]

Re: For all ye Kubuntu/kde4 wairy

Shrugs. I'm using Sidux now.

Sorry, but that's exactly what cult members say. They push their beliefs on others and when others resist, they call that "an attack". I'm sure that all this will work itself out, and yeah, sure, KDE4 is the future, and it's going to be wonderful. No doubt about it, you're on the winning side here. But I'm going to go live in the present while I still can.

[kubicle]

Re: For all ye Kubuntu/kde4 wairy

Sorry, but that's exactly what cult members say. They push their beliefs on others and when others resist, they call that "an attack".

So what you're basically saying is that anyone who doesn't agree with you (or who you don't agree with) is a misguided cult member?

Yup, didn't take me long to decide who is the one on a crusade here.

[MoonRise]

Re: For all ye Kubuntu/kde4 wairy

So you're against Ubuntu as a whole? If I'm not mistaken Kubuntu, Ubuntu and Xubuntu share the same base. That base coming from Debian. But I'll agree with Claydoh about Cult calling Cult. I could care less what one user uses over another, but you are bashing people for their choice and wanting to silence them in YOUR belief that v3 should be the superior; Hmmmph! Each version has it's own quirks. Neither is superior! They just are. Live with it.

Yup, didn't take me long to decide who is the one on a crusade here.

Good point.

[Fintan]

Re: For all ye Kubuntu/kde4 wairy

I am (almost ) sorry for starting this thread.

I can't believe this "I am right, you are all wrong if you do not follow me" attitude.

As for me, (I am right a few of you are wrong ) I have been using kde4.x for some time now as my major working environment and have had no major hiccups for quite a while and do not plan on changing back to 3.5.x. Ever. Period

I will be trying mepis kde4.x and see how it compares with kubuntu and kde-nightly.
But that is for a different post.

[blackbelt_jones]

Re: For all ye Kubuntu/kde4 wairy

Sorry, but that's exactly what cult members say. They push their beliefs on others and when others resist, they call that "an attack".

So what you're basically saying is that anyone who doesn't agree with you (or who you don't agree with) is a misguided cult member?

Yup, didn't take me long to decide who is the one on a crusade here.

Well, "misguided" is not the word I would use. If Kubuntu wants to establish the church of KDE4, that's their right, and if Kubuntu believes that KDE4 is the future of KDE, well, they're not exactly wrong. What's misguided is to try to change Kubuntu's policy, and I don't see how anyone can accuse me of being on a crusade when I'm not trying to change anything. All I'm saying is that Kubuntu's policy is one hundred per cent non-negotiable, so don't try to change it. Am I wrong? You may not like being referred to as a cult, but if I'm telling the heretics to give it up, doesn't that put us on the same side?

Anyway, I've probably made my point as well as I ever will, and Kubuntu is no longer my distro. I should probably stop posting here... if not exactly with this post, maybe within the next few posts. Like I said before, when I learned that Hardy wasn't LTS, I was angry at first, but I got over it quickly. It's not my swimming pool, and just because I don't want to be a part of Kubuntu at this time doesn't mean that Kubuntu is doing anything wrong.

[claydoh]

Re: For all ye Kubuntu/kde4 wairy

Locking this one, too

becoming troll-ish in here

[blackbelt_jones]

Re: For all ye Kubuntu/kde4 wairy

Locking this one, too

becoming troll-ish in here

I'd be a troll if hung around past this point, but I have nothing more to say. Your point about Canonical and Hardy LTS is taken. You guys are doing good work, and I wish you the best.