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**mchuskie** · Feb 18, 2007, 04:26 PM

Re: I think we can improve kubuntu

Originally posted by Raffo

1) Package managment system: Adept is not good. Synaptic is a masterpiece of software. Here you can say that synaptic uses Gtk libraries instead of QTs. But Firefox also isn't written using QTs. Is there someone who can think of a distro without firefox? So why don't include GTK+ libraries and set Synaptic as default package manager??

This is a choice thing, among others. Most people would say that Synaptic is the better app - Adept is still young in comparison. Personally, I have them both installed and find Adept nicer to use, until something goes wrong and I need to use Synaptic to fix it. Then again there's always plain old apt-get, which they both interface anyway...
(And IIRC, Firefox will be disappearing from at least Debian somewhen, to be replaced by "Iceweasel" or whatever they've decided to rebadge it as... but that's a moot point and a flamewar for elsewhere...)

Originally posted by Raffo

2) Look: according to me, kubuntu doesn't have a nice default look. I like kubuntu colors (blue and purple), but the default background is anonymous and quite monocromatic. KDE 3.5 is better by default. I think kubuntu needs a new theme and graphic restyle.

Everyone's taste is going to be different on this one. That's why you can quite freely and easily set KDE up to look how you want it to look, rather than being given a handful of styles that you're restricted to as in some other OSs.

Originally posted by Raffo

3) Applications: I didn't find the apps selection good. I think this can be improved easily...

Uh, I clock 20,635 packages available to me with the repos I have configured. Or do you mean the selection that are installed by default? There's only so much you can fit onto a CD.

Just my two cents.

**Raffo** · Feb 19, 2007, 02:24 AM

Re: I think we can improve kubuntu

Originally posted by JamesM

Uh, I clock 20,635 packages available to me with the repos I have configured. Or do you mean the selection that are installed by default? There's only so much you can fit onto a CD.

Just my two cents.

I was speaking about default selection.

KDE is easy to be customized, but this is not a reason to make kubuntu default look worse than KDE default one... I know that looks depends from what I like the desktop to be, but I'm not the only one saying that kubuntu by default is "ugly", it is also said in the link I posted in my first post...

**Raffo** · Feb 19, 2007, 02:55 AM

Re: I think we can improve kubuntu

It seems I'm not the only one who thinks that kubuntu is not good:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070208-8801.html

Linspire is a KDE-based distribution and Ubuntu is primarily GNOME-based. Kubuntu, which provides Ubuntu's collection of KDE packages, has some unusual modifications that I strongly dislike, and I'm curious about how current Linspire users will respond to those modifications. In particular, Kubuntu obscures about half of the advanced features in the Konqueror file manager. Kubuntu also sorely lacks resources and developers, a problem that Canonical has been struggling to remedy. In general, I advise KDE users to use Debian instead of Kubuntu, because I don't feel that Kubuntu is production-ready yet. If Linspire is willing to invest in improving the quality of Kubuntu, then it would be hugely beneficial to the Ubuntu/Kubuntu user communities.

Maybe linspire will help kubuntu grow...

**claydoh** · Feb 19, 2007, 04:16 PM

Re: I think we can improve kubuntu

God I hope not, I do not care for Linspires's look, or for Mepis' default look either (though that is improving). I actually like many (not all ) of the mods done to KDE. Its what make Kubuntu different from another distro. I find I have to tweak the UI very little to get it to my liking compared to most default KDE setups

Linspire, using Ubuntu as a base (note I did not say (kubuntu) will be a totally different animal from Kubuntu I would think, as will Mepis. I don't think there will be any overlap anywhere for us.

Sure there is some polish needed, and if you look at Feisty, they are getting there. Does anyone remember Hoary (or earlier) Ubuntu versions and the changes that have come every 6 months? Give it time

File bugs/wishlists, argue in #kubuntu-devel in freenode, or in the mailing lists.Get your opinions out where they may be seen by devs (Not much dev traffic here or in Ubuntu's forums believe it or not)

as a side note Adept in Feisty, though still quite different from Synaptic, is quite stable and has quite a few changes, and IMO as a die-hard Synaptic guy, adept is now my choice for package management.

**kubicle** · Feb 20, 2007, 02:48 AM

Re: I think we can improve kubuntu

Originally posted by Raffo

KDE is easy to be customized, but this is not a reason to make kubuntu default look worse than KDE default one... I know that looks depends from what I like the desktop to be, but I'm not the only one saying that kubuntu by default is "ugly", it is also said in the link I posted in my first post...

Feisty has switched to 'Polyester' style by default, which looks rather good and is fairly configurable. (Not my favorite, but a reasonable default)...of course, looks are a very subjective thing, and it's impossible to create a look that would satisfy everyone.

Originally posted by Raffo

Kubuntu, which provides Ubuntu's collection of KDE packages, has some unusual modifications that I strongly dislike

The quickest solution to this is to remove the 'kubuntu-default-settings' package. I for one take the things I like from the package and quickly remove it afterwards.

**awakatanka** · Feb 22, 2007, 08:05 AM

Re: I think we can improve kubuntu

Originally posted by Raffo

1) Package managment system: Adept is not good. Synaptic is a masterpiece of software. Here you can say that synaptic uses Gtk libraries instead of QTs. But Firefox also isn't written using QTs. Is there someone who can think of a distro without firefox? So why don't include GTK+ libraries and set Synaptic as default package manager??

I find adept faster if i try to search something, The live searching i find much better then the search function in synaptic. But Adept must be growing more mature. Synaptic is better organized.

2) Look: according to me, kubuntu doesn't have a nice default look. I like kubuntu colors (blue and purple), but the default background is anonymous and quite monocromatic. KDE 3.5 is better by default. I think kubuntu needs a new theme and graphic restyle.

There have been some discussion about looks already, but every user have a different tast, its to hard to satisfy everyone and i setteling with the chooses they make. ( Don't like the looks also )

I like the way pclinuxos has made there menu entry's. Every kde distro has something good maybe a good thing to put some goodthings about other distro's here maybe they will enter it into kubuntu.

**dibl** · Feb 22, 2007, 08:20 AM

Re: I think we can improve kubuntu

According to the Distrowatch site, there are already over 100 choices for your Linux "look". I'm not sure how to describe my opinion of a person who can't find one he's satisfied with out over over 100 distro choices and 20,000+ applications -- especially when you've got these "themed window managers" like Enlightenment all over the place, Beryl with its skydomes, etc. etc.

These things are truly a matter of taste, and (like bellybuttons), we all have our own.

And few, I suspect, are interested in having the other guy's!

**awakatanka** · Feb 22, 2007, 08:33 AM

Re: I think we can improve kubuntu

Originally posted by dibl

These things are truly a matter of taste, and (like bellybuttons), we all have our own.

I hate my bellybutton, but i can't change it.

As long as we have the freedom to change it the way we like then it doesn't matter. Lucly that is something we can do in kubuntu

**Fenyx** · Feb 22, 2007, 08:46 PM

Re: I think we can improve kubuntu

Some very fine points brought up here. I hope you don't mind if I bring up some of my own.

Yes, Kubuntu can be improved. In fact, it will always need improving. It's definitely not perfect, at least not for everyone (that's an impossibility). The moment it stops improving, is the moment it dies.

Now on with the show:

1. Package Manager (not Package Management System, that will always be DPKG/APT)

Let us just try to step back for a while and look at these package manager GUI's in the historical perspective. As was mentioned earlier, Adept is very young. Synaptic has had the advantage of being older and developed by more people. Adept is fairly new, and mostly developed by one or two persons (now they are three). But Synaptic has almost but stopped growing. Adept is still growing. Each new release bring loads of fixes and new features. It's a work in progress, like any other "living" FOSS project. It's still a baby, and it's still growing up. Let's give it a chance. In the meantime, if a user can't absolutely stand Adept, there are other options. But do check once in a while for something new. You might be surprised.

2. Default Package Selection:

There's really no pleasing everyone. That's a logical impossibility. So what do we do? We have to make compromises. We also have to make assumptions, however correct or incorrect they may be. It can't be helped. Ubuntu has a 1 CD policy, so space is a luxury. They have to make decisions on what to include, what they think will be essential for a regular desktop system. The default package selection on the Desktop and Alternate Install CD's is catered to desktop usage, not "production" or enterprise systems.

Who makes these decisions? There's a certain principle in most FOSS projects called meritocracy. "He who codes, decides."

3. Look:

Again, this is largely preferential and subjective. And again, we can't take into account everyone's preferences. And art is even more subjective than default packages. So what do we do? We have a group of artists who propose artworks, and an art chief who has to make decisions (or make the artwork himself). For Kubuntu Edgy, the art chief was Kenneth Wimer of the KDE 4 Oxygen team. For Feisty, the position is shared by both Kenneth and Nuno Pinheiro, both from the same Oxygen team.

(Btw, the wallpaper is by no means monochromatic).

4. Resources and Developers:

Kubuntu actually doesn't lack technical resources. All the resources available to Ubuntu is available to Kubuntu development. Right now, there is only one developer employed directly by Canonical. But there also other developers working full time on Kubuntu. Being employed by Canonical is not a "mark" of being a Kubuntu developer. But yes Kubuntu could always use more developers.

So in summary, yes, Kubuntu can and needs to be improved, always. It's a process. But the more relevant question is "How can you contribute to this improvement?" It is one thing to see the need for improvement and to say that there is a need for improvement, and quite another thing to actually lend a helping hand. There are many ways to get involved without even knowing how to write a single piece of code: user support, bug reporting/triaging, artwork, documentation, translations. These are all areas where a user can offer his help.

http://del.icio.us/jucato/KubuntuGetInvolved

As a side note, Linspire and MEPIS being based on Ubuntu means that they will be taking a snapshot of the core Ubuntu packages, like the kernel and X server. Then they will add their own patches and set of packages. MEPIS, as far as I know, makes their own KDE packages, so they don't use Kubuntu's.

**kubicle** · Mar 01, 2007, 01:05 AM

Re: I think we can improve kubuntu

Originally posted by Jucato

1. Package Manager (not Package Management System, that will always be DPKG/APT)

Let us just try to step back for a while and look at these package manager GUI's in the historical perspective. As was mentioned earlier, Adept is very young. Synaptic has had the advantage of being older and developed by more people. Adept is fairly new, and mostly developed by one or two persons (now they are three). But Synaptic has almost but stopped growing. Adept is still growing. Each new release bring loads of fixes and new features. It's a work in progress, like any other "living" FOSS project. It's still a baby, and it's still growing up. Let's give it a chance. In the meantime, if a user can't absolutely stand Adept, there are other options. But do check once in a while for something new. You might be surprised.

I have always been more fond of Synaptic, but after the recent upgrades in Adept (in Feisty) I find myself using it more and more (except for the last few days when it has been broken

).

I think the renewed repository management tool in Adept is a lot better than what Synaptic has to offer. Also the changelog browser is very nice, and the installed files view is better than in Synaptic. Also there are other benefits like the notifier and the simplified installer and upgrader. The UI still needs some work, and it definitely needs 'autoremove dependencies' support, but Adept is certainly getting there.

**cowboy77** · Mar 01, 2007, 11:42 AM

Re: I think we can improve kubuntu

If you will run the upgrade for today you will find that adept has been fixed.

**Raffo** · Mar 01, 2007, 03:51 PM

Re: I think we can improve kubuntu

When kubuntu 7.04 will be released I'll surely give it a try. I'm now using debian, because here I can have the kde I want.
Another thing I don't understand about Kubuntu is konqueror's personalization... I really don't like how they changed the menu bar....

**lightzoo** · Mar 01, 2007, 09:34 PM

Re: I think we can improve kubuntu

Hey,

You could removal all the packages installed by Kubuntu and revert back to KDE-core with www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/kde-core+site

sychocats.net+ubuntu&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=34&lr= lang_en]this code[/url]. Then add all the packages you want and make it just the way you like.

Cheers,

**Fenyx** · Mar 02, 2007, 02:15 AM

Re: I think we can improve kubuntu

@lightzoo: this is the actual link to that page:
http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/kde-core

@Raffo: as the name suggests, Kubuntu 7.04 will be released in 2007-04, April 2007.

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