What's the difference between Kubuntu Backports and Neon's KDE updates?

[Tanker Bob]

I've been pondering this question. I use Kubuntu Backports, which does a pretty good job in keeping up with the latest KDE updates. Neon is all about KDE updates, but on an LTE base that ages for a couple of years at a time. Backports seems to be like Neon but with an updated core every 6 months. Is there something in Neon that's missing in the Backports? Or is it all just about keeping the LTS base but updating the desktop and associated apps as the core ages out? Thank you for your insights.

[claydoh]

Well, really, what is missing in the PPAs will be future plasma updates, at least in a timely and consistent manner.

neon does use an LTS base, but has built an automatic build system that produces the isos as well as the packaging, essentially as KDE release the different components - Plasma, Applications, and Frameworks.
Neon only updates the core every two years, not every 6 months. And using the standard Ubuntu HWE stack, has more recent kernel and drivers. The current kernel is 5.3, from 19.10
Neon also package Qt, a core component of Plasma, and where many bug fixes can come from. This is much more up to date than *buntu, even 20.04
Neon does not care much about non-KDE software, so yes there will be a small number of ancient Qt program versions that do not install in neon. we are talking maybe a half dozen at the most. This is purely due to the packages being directly sourced from Debian, and are unnecessarily hard coded in the packaging setup to require a specific Qt version.


In Kubuntu, the 'backports' refers to taking packaging from a newer OS version, and porting them back to the current or older version. Well, though it does not have to be specifically ported from the development cycle, things usually are sourced directly from that process.
Not all minor releases are provided by Kubuntu.


Functionally, there really is zero difference for most people, outside of Neon not providing things that are *butnu-specific, like the driver manager and the Software Sources tool (they can be installed, but sometimes don't work well or at all ). Also the very small number of Qt programs from the 18.04 repos that don't install due to neon's newer version. these are all old to begin with, and I mean they are old even in the current Kubuntu even, so the vast majority will be wanting updated sources, no matter which OS they choose here. The differences for the end user are minor but still noticeable.


For what it is worth, Neon is made by the original Kubuntu developer team
Also, for what it is worth, having used Kubuntu quite literally as long as it has existed, I run KDE Neon. I only stick around due to inertia, i think
My last Kubuntu PC is sitting in the corner, mosty in piece these past few months.


tl;dr
Kubuntu is an actual distro, Neon is a repo that mostly needs an iso to install properly.

[Tanker Bob]

Wow, thank you for the detailed explanation! I may pop over to Neon in July when it updates to the 20.04 LTE. In the meantime, I'll play with it in a VM.

Is there a way to simply change/use the repos to switch from Kubuntu to Neon once the latter updates to the 20.04 core? I have a pretty involved setup and loathe starting again from a clean iso installation.

[claydoh]

Wow, thank you for the detailed explanation! I may pop over to Neon in July when it updates to the 20.04 LTE. In the meantime, I'll play with it in a VM.

Is there a way to simply change/use the repos to switch from Kubuntu to Neon once the latter updates to the 20.04 core? I have a pretty involved setup and loathe starting again from a clean iso installation.

no, it is not a drop in replacement, with enough packaging differences to make upgrading make things go boom, with a very high likelihood. personalized user settings, as stored in one's $HOME are of course compatible.

[Tanker Bob]

no, it is not a drop in replacement, with enough packaging differences to make upgrading make things go boom, with a very high likelihood. personalized user settings, as stored in one's $HOME are of course compatible.

Great insights, thank you! I hate doing stupid stuff that goes boom, unless it was sufficiently fun and there is no permanent damage. I've given it some though, and I believe that I'll move to Neon when their July update comes out. I like that they update the kernel per Ubuntu's HWE stack during the 2-year cycle. That was my only real holdout, but you've eliminated that mental hurdle for me.

And there's a lot of good things to be said concerning inertia!

[Don B. Cilly]

Well, I use both, and still uncertain which one to use for "daily" use.
At the moment, they're pretty much the same. And I'm mainly using neon because of the 18.04 base.

But I am working on using the 20.04 one proficiently (and hoping Python 2 support is coming back ;·) because... eventually...

[Tanker Bob]

I tried to install the 4/30/2020 Neon iso into a VirtualBox 6.1.6 VM, and had the installer crash on multiple attempts. I gave it more resources than the Xbuntu VM I created 2 days ago and the same system parameters, but no luck. Tried a number of changes, but nothing helped. The last line in the log process the triggers for initramfs-tools, so it isn't creating a bootable system. I downloaded the iso twice, so I believe the iso is good. Any ideas? Just a bad build?

[claydoh]

could be, though I don't see any reports on it. probably works fine on bare metal.

[Tanker Bob]

could be, though I don't see any reports on it. probably works fine on bare metal.

There's a thread on the KDE forums about it. They recommended installing the next previous version and updating, but the torrent that has it appears inactive.

[Don B. Cilly]

If you don't have enough space to make a partition to try it on, you could try my experimental service menu/script to add the ISO to a grub menu and run it (in "live" mode) from there.
The "final " version of the script is at post #31.

[claydoh]

There's a thread on the KDE forums about it. They recommended installing the next previous version and updating, but the torrent that has it appears inactive.

lol I missed that somehow, it slipped down the list of posts and I missed it.

I believe that they build new isos weekly so perhaps it will be fixed.

[oshunluvr]

I d/l'd and installed neon-unstable-20200419-1103.iso awhile back in a VM. The neon-user-20200409-1111.iso release would boot and install (VM) but would not get past black screen upon reboot. I didn't bother trying to fix it, I just d/l'd the newer one.

The current one seems to be working fine. During the week I transitioned to QEMU/KVM from Vbox by converting the disk, no problems. Todays update had issues - initramfs could not be built against the new 5.3.0-51 kernel but it rebooted into 5.3.0-46 OK



Current "daily driver" and VM side-by-side

[Tanker Bob]

Thanks to all. I was finally able to download the neon-user-20200416-1115.iso file. It installed with no issues and it just finished updating in the VM. I look forward to playing with Neon until I make a decision when the next major version releases.

[oshunluvr]

This mornings update resolved my initramfs issue from yesterday.