What's the deal with KDE Neon vs. Kubuntu?

[VanessaDeagan]

I'm curious about KDE Neon, but haven't as yet attempted to install it, purely because Kubuntu works (and works extremely well) for me. I distro-hopped for a while, but always find myself returning to Kubuntu because I can do all the things I need to do.

So, my questions are:

1. Neon and Kubuntu are both based on Ubuntu, so what are the differences? Package management? Package versions?
2. I vaguely recall reading somewhere that Kubuntu developers were jumping over to KDE Neon. Is this true?
3. Does KDE Neon mean that Kubuntu will, in time, become irrelevant/deprecated?

[claydoh]

1) True. Kubuntu is an official "flavour" of Ubuntu, and their packages reside in the standard Ubuntu repositories. Neon uses an Ubuntu core but maintains their own repos for Plasma. This allows them to offer the latest releases of the Plasma, Frameworks, Applications, and even Qt much quicker and easier than in Kubuntu, as Ubuntu has different policies for update inclusions in their repos.
The difference is that Neon *(in the User edition) offers the latest stable software from the KDE folks as they are released, which does not happen in Kubuntu. There, the packages when they do update them have to be added via various PPAs.
Neon also have their two Dev editions, which are daily builds of unreleased Plasma software.
In terms of packaging, Neon specializes in a more automated build process that they have developed which is readily evident from the daily-built Dev editons, and allows us to get the latest releases pretty much as they come out.

Packaging-wise, there are differences as can be expected from different teams. As we all share a Debian base, most of it is very similar but there will be differences due to different dependency needs, and the fact that Neon will for the most part have newer versions.

2) Neon was started by Kubuntu founder Jonathan Riddell and some former Kubuntu long-time developers, who left when Jonathan was kicked out by Canonical. There is actually more of a crossover of devs these days, as is usual in the f/oss world, things are shared (and not just between Neon and Kubuntu)

3) Neon is not a successor to or replacement for Kubuntu, it is a separate project not connected to Ubuntu at all. Kubuntu's future is whatever Kubuntu chooses.
Both project have different goals even if they offer mostly the same software. One way of looking at it is that Kubuntu focuses on an entire OS, while Neon solely focuses on Plasma.

[VanessaDeagan]

@claydoh - Many thanks for the explanation.

[GreyGeek]

What Claydoh said, and, Kubuntu is a GREAT distro and always worked flawless for me. I switched to Neon User Edition when it first came out and have been using it every since. It is a GREAT non-distro distro. I like it because it more front, but not bleeding, edge than Kubuntu. If you want the bleeding edge use the developers edition. If you are happy with Kubuntu and don't do much distro hopping there is no reason to jump to Neon.

[dequire]

It's also worth noting that KDE Neon claims to not be a distro. The main reason being, that KDE Neon comes out of the box with little to no software pre-installed. In other words, no Office Suite, media player, graphics application, etc. The main apps included are KWrite and Firefox, in addition to those included in KDE Applications. So Neon users get to mold their OS a bit more out of the box. Some looking for a full distro experience may find Kubuntu a bit better experience post-installation, whereas more power users may like Neon's minimalist installation to allow them to decide what apps are needed on their system.

One potential drawback to Neon is that it's based on Ubuntu's LTS release (currently Xenial), which is getting a bit long in the tooth at the moment. This can create issues for some things like gaming, for instance, where newer kernels and newer versions of the entire graphics stack are most definitely desirable. Of course this can be remedied with adding appropriate PPA's, but may be a bit of a hassle for some.

Overall, as mentioned above, they have decidedly different target audiences. And both are great additions to the KDE Community. Finally, I will also add that the current crop of Kubuntu Devs do a great job in getting major KDE releases back-ported in a timely fashion. Much better than they have historically. I suspect that this is due to KDE Plasma being a more mature product, so there are likely less worries about major incompatibilities and breakages. I have no problem recommending either, although I suspect most Neon users don't need to me to recommend it for them, as they are savy enough to know what's best for them, and likely know that there is a little more work involved in getting things 'just right' for them.

[jglen490]

I beg to differ about the assessment of LTS being "long in the tooth". It's stable, it works, there's very little wrong with it as evidenced by the dearth of problem discussion on the Xenial forum. It's a fine OS that is unlikely to surprise the user. That's exactly the kind of platform that I'm looking for and rely on.

The time is long past since I "played" with Linux, but if you're looking for a toy then live on the development edge. I'm grateful that the devs have become really adept at making an OS that is quick to stablize, and incorporates elements that just work together.

I'll gladly use an OS that does not require constant fighting to fix this problem or that surprise, each and every day. I'm looking forward to the next LTS, in fact.

[GreyGeek]

That Neon was a light "distro" was what drew me to it. I don't like a lot of pre-installed apps because I don't use most of them. With Neon I installed what I wanted to use.

And, Neon User Edition is just rock solid stable, and I am running it Btrfs with RAID1. Since it was first released, when I installed it, I have have few problem that weren't of my own making. The only one I can think of which wasn't my fault is the sddm bug which requires rebooting sddm at the login screen to avoid a mouse artifact.

[claydoh]

I beg to differ about the assessment of LTS being "long in the tooth". It's stable, it works, there's very little wrong with it as evidenced by the dearth of problem discussion on the Xenial forum. It's a fine OS that is unlikely to surprise the user. That's exactly the kind of platform that I'm looking for and rely on.

The time is long past since I "played" with Linux, but if you're looking for a toy then live on the development edge. I'm grateful that the devs have become really adept at making an OS that is quick to stablize, and incorporates elements that just work together.

I'll gladly use an OS that does not require constant fighting to fix this problem or that surprise, each and every day. I'm looking forward to the next LTS, in fact.

It is long on the tooth on the sense that other, non-plasma software can be a bit old, without having to search for useful ppas and the like. Firefox will be up to date but what about other things?
LTS do have the option for HWE to update to newer kernel/driver stack but this is not obvious that this is an option, but for new installs of 16.04.2 and on, this is enabled by default. But does Neon use the latest LTS point release when creating their images? I dunno.

[mowestusa]

I really appreciate this thread, as someone who is coming back to using Linux after 5+ years. I knew that I wanted to come back to Linux with a KDE based distro, because of what I had read about KDE Plasma being feature rich yet, resource light which I have found to be true on this crusty old laptop with 4Gigs of Ram. Kubuntu fully loaded has sipped about 600 megs of those 4 Gigs, but given me a rich graphical environment. Originally, I wanted to try OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, but I failed to get that to install next to CloudReady (for my children's use at home). I tested Ubuntu 17.04, which did install next to CloudReady, and the next day wiped Ubuntu and installed Kubuntu 17.04, and I have been a happy camper. One of my motivations in returning to Linux at home (work requires Windows) is the opportunity to join and be a part of a Linux community. This discussion has me seriously wondering where would my "free" time be best spent if I want to actively help a community?

I'm not a developer, but I do enjoy documentation and I'm considering screen casts as well which seem to be effective tools to offer documentation that people will use. Would it be best to run Neon to use the lastest in KDE apps? It seems like much of the Kubuntu documentation or advice on being involved with the community tends to lead back to KDE materials, wiki, and bug reports which I understand since Kubuntu strives to be an excellent KDE based distro. At the same time Kubuntu has created a wonderful community, this forum being a great example. I have appreciated the help I have received here already, but some of that help has come from Neon users. I have been surprised that something will work on Neon running on LTS, but not on Kubuntu 17.04 which I would think would benefit some from newer non KDE base packages and technologies. (Two examples, that I have run into is kio-gdrive and Discover, which has been very buggy, but Neon users seem to report that it is rock solid.) Surely from what I have seen, help with KDE trickles down to help for Kubuntu users too. So where would you encourage a non developer to invest their time to help?

Once again, my thanks to the Kubuntu developers and KDE developers (probably significant crossover in those groups) for making my return to Linux a wonderful experience.

[wizard10000]

...I don't like a lot of pre-installed apps because I don't use most of them. With Neon I installed what I wanted to use.

Agree completely. I prefer Debian but this is exactly the reason I do minimal installs, configure apt to not automatically install recommended packages and build my systems pretty much from scratch. All I need is a functioning network and I build from there

[dequire]

I beg to differ about the assessment of LTS being "long in the tooth". It's stable, it works, there's very little wrong with it as evidenced by the dearth of problem discussion on the Xenial forum. It's a fine OS that is unlikely to surprise the user. That's exactly the kind of platform that I'm looking for and rely on.

I agree with you in general. In my post I mentioned a specific user-case: Gaming. We could add to that such things as video editing, development, and multimedia. There are valid cases for wanting newer kernels and newer apps. In general, for everyday computing, your assessment is correct, and you appear to be exactly for whom LTS' are released for. That's what makes Linux so great!

[oldgeek]

I used Kubuntu 14.04 until the 16.04 LTS came out, and I was very happy with 14.04's stability and trouble-free environment. Shortly after I upgraded to 16.04, I decided to try Neon dev-stable, and now have been running this hybrid for over a year and find it to be quite stable as well. I like trying out the up-to-date software from KDE but sometimes find it boring to have to update every day. I'm planning on a 5-week vacation in Sept and Oct and I dread to think how many updates I'll have when I come back! I've been testing Kubuntu Artful Aardvark ever since Alpha 1 came out (on a VMM) and am quite impressed with it as well. My question next April: will I go full into the Neon LTS or go back to a strict Kubuntu environment?

[GreyGeek]

I predict that you will move to Neon User Edition LTS because you want the latest STABLE release of KDE.

[wizard10000]

I predict that you will move to Neon User Edition LTS because you want the latest STABLE release of KDE.

Yup. Dev Stable is really nice and I used it as a daily driver during Debian's package freeze but there is a lot of dev activity and lotsa downloads.

But - you don't have to update every day if you don't want to. User edition or LTS would both work great for you.

[vinnywright]

Yup. Dev Stable is really nice and I used it as a daily driver during Debian's package freeze but there is a lot of dev activity and lotsa downloads.

LOL yup ,,,,over 300+ packages today

VINNY