Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

KDE Neon Developer review for possible users not technical

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    KDE Neon Developer review for possible users not technical

    Neon Review the User Experience Not Technical

    It is not concerned with "tweaked" versions of KDE Neon.

    This review is written after a year of daily use of KDE Neon Developer Edition on a large screen television and on a “desktop work computer”.

    It is not technical in nature it is about “the user experience” with "discussion" and "recommendations".

    Summary:


    a) KDE Neon is “an operating system” which, in the opinion of this user, is “stable” even in the developer edition, with the CAVEAT that the user does not get off "into the wild" installing different apps or tweaks ( ummm the same things that can break a "normal mainstream" distro) .

    b) KDE Neon is “cutting edge” only in that it is being updated DAILY and with a lot of updates PER day.

    Thus, it might be best to consider if one wants to have a set time for the updates during off hours or if one can pre-decide on when to manually invoke updates.

    It really is a “rolling release”. If one does not like the idea of a “rolling release” which in the case of a HARDWARE CRASH would have to be REBUILT from the ground floor then KDE Neon might not be desirable.

    c) Because of how KDE Neon is being developed, not all eye candy, such as the splash screen, is capable of being modified by the user. However, the ancillary tweaks such as application borders, default sizes etc. can be user modified.

    d) KDE Neon provides minimal applications, thus one will have to install the desired applications.

    e) Because of ( b, c, d ), above, one should plan ahead on how to reinstall applications and settings.

    f) The center search box in Firefox does not function, one must use the upper right search box.
    EXTENDED DISCUSSION with details and / or explanation and RECOMMENDATIONS.

    A) KDE Neon does EXACTLY what the developers state: It provides an operating system.

    The OS, even the developer's edition, is stable in this user’s opinion.

    This user has found it to be rock solid. In the space of one year there was only one ( 1 ) “bug” and that bug was reported within one day and fixed by the next day.

    B) KDE Neon is written about as possibly being unstable because it is “cutting edge”.

    The highly pregnant consideration here is ….just what does the term “cutting edge” mean?

    “Most folks” think of it as trying the latest and greatest shiny bauble that may “break the system”.

    In this user’s opinion the above definition is not applicable to KDE Neon.

    It is only “cutting edge” in the sense of the continual and massive amounts of upgrades / updates which, by definition, are considered “stable enough” to be shoved down to the user space.

    Discussion:

    Why, one must ask, would anyone even consider putting something out that affects “the guts’ of the system that was purposely NOT stable.

    That kind of thing is done when one is going to use the user community to do the beta testing and when one has to adhear to a "release schedule" and such.

    Yes, "we users " are beta testing, this user is an example, but, again, this user has NOT seen the normal kind of "teething problems" that other supposed cutting edge distros, and even stable release distros have often exhibited.

    Thus, to this user, the NORMAL USEAGE of term “cutting edge” does not apply to KDE Neon.
    What makes it "cutting edge" in the opinion of this author is the MASSIVE number of DAILY updates.

    In the case of KDE Neon that the little line in the updater that says “this can take some time”, is not an understatement in the case of KDE Neon.

    The DAILY updates, for this user, on a modern AMD computer and using a high speed cable / inter-net connexion in the mid-west of the United states, often takes upwards of ten to fifteen minutes.

    To REPEAT…. they are DAILY, thus if one waits between updates they only take longer to complete.

    This user offers a RECOMMENDATION because of the above.

    KDE Neon is probably ‘best suited” to be used on a computer which is not shut off “nightly / whenever“ . Thus, the updates can then be timed for when the user is not interacting with the computer or invoked manually “before going to bed”.

    C) One thing that “ "hardcore Linux people / developers “ have never GROKED about Windows ™ users is that “the average person” likes to fiddle with the appearance of the desktop, application appearance (borders ) and with the browser.

    Anyone who “repairs computers” knows this very well. An example being the procilivity of the Windows ™ user to either intentionally install “enhancement bars” or allow them unintentionally on browsers.

    So, no matter what the developers think, since they concentrate on the “guts’ of the OS, the users like to have eye candy.

    KDE Neon provides quite a bit of eyecandy with the widgets such as a picture frame for the desktop, cartoons downloaded from the web, etc.

    HOWEVER, often times the "get extra / new stuff " option is not available. So, again, if one wants to always be tweaking the OS possibly KDE Neon is not a good choice.

    THE SPLASH SCREEN PROBLEM

    The web is littered with hundreds of complaints about not being able to “change the splash screen” in this or that distro.

    Kubuntu, and others offer the option of changing the splash screen.

    Multi-user machines, however, have a SOCIAL problem with being able to change the splash screen.

    That “social” problem is that person A decides on a splash screen for startup and person B has to put up with it.

    This problem is not noticed by single user using a single user machine at home; or even at work.

    If the user is one who has opted to turn the computer off after use this “could” become a real bugaboo, as evidenced by the many complaints on the web ( this author does not think that they KNOW that the "problem" is that of turning the computer off "at night" they just know that they are tired of seeing the same splash screen every morning) .

    Such users will not be happy with the situation of KDE Neon.

    Because the developers at KDE Neon have opted for the long haul they do not provide an option for changing the splash screen because of the above consideration of multiuser machines and recoding from GRUB onward.

    HERE IS THE CAUSE OF THE SITUATION IN A NUTSHELL.

    The “background” for the present, black, splash screen is really a “script” buried in the innards of the OS. What one “sees” when one sees the “K” is a “white mask” in the form of a “K” which really is a graphic that appears and then disappears in front of the coded black screen. The text one sees is, again, code, and not part of a graphic.

    However, all is not lost for those who are patient.

    The KDE Neon team are working on “redoing” how the whole startup thing is done from GRUB to the presence of the desktop.

    THE LOGIN SCREEN.

    The “login” screen does SHOW the option of choosing a background, using a simple chooser from file. However, even that is not reliable for the simple reason that the work is one in progress.

    This user thus offers ADVICE because of the above.

    If the user absolutely has to have the option of changing the splash screen, login screen, etc. then one might better consider Kubuntu; which is fully customizable.

    D) KDE Neon really “is” a “rolling release”. Evidence of this is in the splash screen when one turns on the computer, approximately every week there is a new “.dot” version of it announced below the Neon electron "shell" symbol.



    This user offers some advice. If the user wants to do a “new install” periodically, such as going from one animal to another in Ubuntu, this is probably not an appropriate OS.

    E) the classic “low overhead / low bloat / minimalist” Linux user would probably really like KDE Neon because it provides almost no preloaded applications.

    One will have to load the applications that one desires.

    This results in an OBSERVABLY faster OS.

    One really does have the opportunity to “role one’s own” distro.

    HOWEVER THERE IS A PROBLEM

    What will one do if one has a hardware crash and has heavily tweaked the OS with a lot of applications from places buried in the dungeons of the internet?

    For software one is presented with the labour of making a new CD of the OS ( of the latest version by the way ) and then, again, installing the desired software.

    User Settings present a more thorny problem.

    The “problem” in searching for options to either or both is the LOOSE USEAGE of terms when searching on the net about this.

    Littered across the time space continuum of forums, blogs and websites the terms such as “backup”, “migrate”, “clone”, “data”, “home folder”, “configuration”, “settings” are used in an often uninformed and often quite incorrect interchangeable manner.

    Quite simply:

    I) If one “tweaks” the interface; what one SEES on the screen
    II) if one has a lot of apps, such as Pidgin which have different passwords,

    How does one “save” all of this stuff to be able to easily “apply” it to the new install?

    And a future PROBLEM is that KDE Neon is always “changing”. Although the basic “Linux file structure” will be there there is often, as in many distros, a change in what particular folder is being used to store certain stuffs.

    One does have several options which can be viewed in terms of from where a user gets applications and the complexity of the tweaking.

    FOR APPLICATIONS.

    I) Make a paper list of the software and manually install from the Repos.

    This is basically typing in the names from the list in Synaptic search or MUON and ticking the install button.

    II) If all apps are in the normal repositories then one can use a simple command in terminal which would have to be kept updated ( from the paper list) such as:

    sudo apt-get install program1 program2 program3

    III) If one installs apps from PPAs then things get a little more complex but there are several solutions. Here is one such:

    https://askubuntu.com/questions/9406...ations-at-once

    IV) One can clone the whole system periodically using an app such as Respin, which is an update of Remastersys which was created by the much beloved Tony.

    http://www.linuxrespin.org/

    BREAK TO FOLLOW ON THREAD

    #2
    DUE TO THE LENGTH OF THIS POST IT WAS BROKEN INTO TWO PARTS, PLEASE GO BELOW AND READ THE FIRST PART ...UMMM FIRST.

    TO CONTINUE FROM THE PRIOR, INITIAL POST:

    FOR USER SETTINGS.

    Again, this can get complicated, depending on whether folder names have changed or some such as the OS progresses. Different distros store stuff in different hidden folders so the situation is one of finding the appropriate hidden folders and somehow copying them. ( view / show hidden folders – one sees “translucent” folders with a “dot” “.” in front of the name.

    This can be done manually, but can be tedious.

    The normal advice, “authoritatively intoned” by a Linux pseudo-guru, is to “backup the home folder”. However, if one stores a lot of data on the hard drive that can take up a lot of disk space “somewhere” and can take a lot of “time”.

    A better piece of advice is to copy and save “/home” and “/etc”. But, even that sage advice does not take into account the multitude of things that are slightly different about KDE Neon’s folder naming and additions.

    One automated option FOR SETTINGS...for KDE is that of “backintime” or “Back In Time” which is in the repos, it is a Gnomish thing but has a KDE front end. It will do a “snapshot” of designated folders. So, again, one has to know which folders to “designate”.

    This user offers ADVICE.

    If one has a complex user settings configuration then one should explore how to “copy” those settings to a usb stick or the cloud and how to get them RE-installed in the new install.

    I will not belabour the point that there are MULTIPLE discussions about this here at Kubuntu Forums; “Of thine own ingenum devise”.

    F) The search box in the center of the page on Firefox does not function. One must use the upper right search box. LOL :0

    * * * * * * * * * * *
    SO, TO SUMMARIZE A RATHER LENGTHY POST:

    a) KDE Neon is “an operating system” which, in the opinion of this user, is “stable”.

    b) KDE Neon is “cutting edge” only in that is being updated daily and with a lot of updates per day.

    Thus it might be best to consider if one wants to have a set time for the updates during off hours or if one can pre-decide on when to manually invoke updates.

    It really is a “rolling release”. If one does not like the idea of a “rolling release” which would have to be REBUILT after a hardware crash from the ground floor then KDE Neon might not be desirable.

    c) Because of how KDE Neon is being developed, not all eye candy, such as the splash screen, is capable of being modified by the user.

    d) KDE Neon provides minimal applications, thus one will have to install the desired applications. Thus one can "roll your own" without having to UNinstall unwanted applications.

    e) However, because of the above paucity of installed applications; one should plan ahead about and LEARN how to save and reinstall applications and settings.

    f) The center search box in Firefox does not function, one must use the upper right search box.

    If there are questions or comments, probably a lot more relevant than the old woodsmoker’s, then please post them.

    woodlikesKubuntuANDNeonsmoke
    Last edited by woodsmoke; May 29, 2017, 05:16 PM.

    Comment


      #3
      KDE Neon Developer review for possible users not technical

      Executive Summary: KDE Neon User Edition is the best Linux OS desktop I have ever used. Period. It pairs nicely with Btrfs to make an unbeatable combination.
      Last edited by GreyGeek; May 30, 2017, 05:40 AM.
      "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
      – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

      Comment


        #4
        Thank you for that very pithy summary oh grey geek one!

        woodlikesGGsmoke

        Comment


          #5



          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
          "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
          – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by GreyGeek View Post
            Executive Summary: KDE Neon User Edition is the best Linux OS desktop I have ever used. Period. It pairs nicely with Btrfs to make an unbeatable combination.
            I moved back to Sid over the weekend to help with Debian's impending release of the new Stable next month, but ran both Neon Dev Stable and Dev Unstable while Debian was frozen.

            Dev Stable makes a fine desktop environment; I found Dev Unstable to be a little glitchy and frequent updates from a slow repo pushed me towards Dev Stable.
            we see things not as they are, but as we are.
            -- anais nin

            Comment


              #7
              I tried Dev Stable for a while several years ago but, IIRC, it was well behind current the current KDE version. And, It didn't have as many app choices as other distros. Also, setting up restricted codecs wasn't as easy. Things could be different now. Debian is my goto distro if others get too intrusive or PC


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
              "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
              – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

              Comment


                #8
                Hi
                I've tried all four on only usb sticks.

                User edition takes longest to install and, in terms of opening apps and moving about in the system, this is not a settings thing, works the most reasonably in terms of expectations about being able to open, say dolphin, split it and move items from another usb onto the main one or off. Also one can have a storage usb inserted and the system will, usually, boot. I have not found a library that was not available but then I don't go for shiney baubles much anymore.

                People who want to "make an OS" really do not have much to do to make one with this version.

                LTS is not observably different from user, at least to me.

                Updates in either are kind of "normal" but can be once in a while longish.

                Git-stable is faster to install and is the best "all around" compromise in terms of having a usable desktop that operates at a somewhat normal speed, again, all libraries seem to be available but now is where the massive amounts of updates on a daily basis begin. It will not run when a storage usb is on the hardware at bootup.

                Git-unstable is FAST to install and...has some rather ...shall we say... "thought provoking" symbology in deciding just how to install. If the hardware is not capable of the install it just stops, but doesn't crash, it just pops one back to the previous screen. As far as the rest of the "appearance" it is the same. It will not boot when a storage usb is on the hardware at boot up. It just stops.

                BUT IT IS JUST SLOW on a usb install, as in INTERMINABLY slow. And that is fine it is, after all it is in "UNstable". lol The updates are much larger than git-stable.

                But as to libraries...I installed gKrellm on git-unstable and that is about as off the mainstream as one can get.

                Not all of the krells worked but that is just the way it is, the app has basically gone dormant but, in main, it still works. That, in and of itself, says a LOT about Neon as a work in progress.

                It also will just stop at bootup when a storage usb is inserted at bootup.

                What is really CURIOUS to the old woodsmoker is the "gradual degradation" of ...what...? I don't know... "capability" as one goes from full blown to git-unstable.

                Yes, they are redoing the whole thing from top to bottom, I understand that but it would seem...seem... that the development really IS going on all the way down to the hardware abstraction layer ... hmmm...

                As to the Grey one's comment about having to do your own codec installs, etc. yes, I actually have a "script" that I copy into terminal and let it run while taking a nap. I take a lot of naps nowadays! lol

                OH and as to why I do a script I use it on the git-unstable because there are some...interesting things going on just with the Install portion, it is not the "normal" install.

                While git-stable is very much a classic install run through.

                And the Graymeister wrote:

                others get...PC
                Would the Great Gray care to expand on the meaning of "PC"?
                I was thinking about this in terms of the Vivaldi tablet that never came to fruition. I actually mailed off money and received it back when it went belly up.

                There WAS some small amount of "controversy" about it, since it was developed at arms length from KDE and the man invested a LOT of cash on it but then also there was the whole thing about ARM devices etc.

                If Neon somehow really does become..."hardware independent" ? How that would happen I don't know, but...I just keep plugging and unplugging usb drives and "throwing stuff" at the two git versions.

                woodworksusingKubuntuandfiddleswithNeonsmoke
                Last edited by woodsmoke; Jun 02, 2017, 09:24 PM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Woody, did you use Btrfs?


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                  "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                  – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    nope, did not.

                    woodjustahardwarekindaguysmoke

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Awesome fs. You should look into it.
                      "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                      – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I'll do that but I try to stay with stock so that I can report things that don't work.

                        But, since it's been around for a while, I'll check it out.

                        thanks

                        woodsmoke

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by woodsmoke View Post
                          I'll do that but I try to stay with stock so that I can report things that don't work.

                          But, since it's been around for a while, I'll check it out.

                          thanks

                          woodsmoke
                          Oshunluver has a bunch of excellent posts about Btrfs on this forum. Good info.
                          I've been using Btrfs for 2 1/2 years and am currently running RAID1 on two 1Tb HDs on my Acer V3 laptop.
                          "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                          – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

                          Comment


                            #14


                            woodsmoke

                            Comment


                              #15
                              To restate and emphasize my previous post about how if one chooses to run a "developer edition".

                              I PERHAPS misspoke about the time involved in updates.

                              Today there were 162 packages downloaded and installed.

                              The time for the download was 13 minutes and this on a TRUELY high speed internet connexion.

                              The INSTALL took 32 minutes.

                              UPON RECONSIDERATION... the INSTALL time may be a function of the OS being on a USB stick.

                              Since I am running Kubu on a hard drive I do not a comparison metric between a hard drive install of Neon and the USB.

                              So, I APOLOGIZE if I "ran someone off" of Neon Developer because of a possible time problem.

                              However, I DO want to REemphasize that there really ARE a very large number of updates every single day.

                              In this case 162 which is rather average in number.

                              woodsmoke

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X