[KDE] Persistence of mounted network shares - ideas

[artbar]

Hi everyone.

I'd like to start a discussion about making KDE/Kubuntu more user friendly, but first things first.


*The problem

Imagine an average Linux user. He/she (typically) has a laptop/tablet/phone and some sort of router with WiFi. So this is a home network - simple and convenient for most of home users. Next level would be some sort of file server/NAS box at home for content (music, family photos, videos) or for work (coding, book writing, etc.). With NAS/File Server or without it we have to share some content over the network. Now let's look from Kubuntu point of view. The Dolphin has the ability to browse the network and recognize most popular sharing protocols - SMB/CIFS, NFS, FTP, Apple's, via SSH and few more. At least from my own experience this functionality is so limited/unfinished from end user's perspective - I can browse my network shares, I can put as bookmarks in the left panel of Dolphin, but that happens with very different degree of success - i.e., I can see a NFS share but I cannot get in it (ACL is fine, I triple checked). The various issues with Samba shares.... All HOW-TOs say that I have to put an entry to fstab. OK, I did that for NFS share and all my problems have gone. Hurray!

But there is one question which still bothers me - why not to make this "fstab" step an integral part of browsing network in Dolphin ? Imagine, you came to the place in the network and you want it to be a permanent "bookmark" - you right-click on it and say "make it permanent mount" (or similar) which could lead to a dialog for options (i.e. auto/noauto, etc.) before saving it.

I understand that power users are able to make changes in the fstab first and then finish it elsewhere (i.e. Dolphin). But why not to make it easier ? Even professional linux users/admins would save time in such cases.

Imagine a user who just installed Kubuntu and wants Amarok play his/her music from NFS share on OpenMediaVault - it doesn't work even if you somehow managed to "bookmark" NFS in the Dolphin. Then that user spends few evenings searching for a solution, changing fstab, making mistakes and having to restore the fstab due to mistakes. Finally he/she gets a NFS share mounted/available under Devices in Dolphin. And finally Amarok recognizes mouthed share.

One good thing happens then - he/she learns something new . But the learning shouldn't be started this way if one wants it to be comprehensive and holistic. Of course, I might be missing something, some technical difficulties or perhaps IT architecture of Linux/KDE/Kubuntu doesn't support that.

The question

Is it worth to start feature request at KDE/Dolphin/Kubuntu developers ?

Regards
Artūras

[Snowhog]

Is it worth to start feature request at KDE/Dolphin/Kubuntu developers ?

Of course. If/until/when users make suggestions to the developers, the only thing they (developers) have to go on is their own thoughts/ideas. However, keep in mind that making suggestions carries no guarantee that they (suggestions) will be adopted.

If you don't ask, the answer is almost always no. If you do ask, the answer might be yes.

[heinkel_111]

Imagine a user who just installed Kubuntu and wants Amarok play his/her music from NFS share on OpenMediaVault - it doesn't work even if you somehow managed to "bookmark" NFS in the Dolphin. Then that user spends few evenings searching for a solution, changing fstab, making mistakes and having to restore the fstab due to mistakes. Finally he/she gets a NFS share mounted/available under Devices in Dolphin. And finally Amarok recognizes mouthed share.

One good thing happens then - he/she learns something new . But the learning shouldn't be started this way if one wants it to be comprehensive and holistic. Of course, I might be missing something, some technical difficulties or perhaps IT architecture of Linux/KDE/Kubuntu doesn't support that.

This pretty much describes exactly what I experienced, except I don't have OpenMediaVault, but an old linux laptop which runs the mediatomb DLNA(UPnP)-server application. This streams the music from that old linux laptop to almost any device in network range and it plays on various platforms because DLNA or UPnP-support you can get on all kinds of equipment these days. I even think it is an open standard, served up by my kubuntu latop, so I am suprised to see it play on hardware with windows and apple diseases but not in Amarok on my desktop computer.
Supposedly there should be a kioslave for DLNA and/or UPnP (I don't know if that is synonyms or if they mean exactly the same). If there was it would play on Amarok. I think this is what is need for the amarok case (any mediaplayer really as streaming seems to be the new norm).

NFS is useful for many things and while Linux has focused on developing for desktop or laptop or even handheld device use lately, unix started as a more network-native system than Windows, and in theory should be easier to morph into something that would facilitate a home server/client setup as you are describing. There is a catch though: many of the large commercial vendors that also support much of linux development these days would like to be that server for you, so they are more likely to sponsor software that makes it easy to connect to their data center than the software that would be easy to use to connect to your own homegrown data center.

[artbar]

This pretty much describes exactly what I experienced, except I don't have OpenMediaVault, but an old linux laptop which runs the mediatomb DLNA(UPnP)-server application<..>

I'm not alone !

NFS is useful for many things and while Linux has focused on developing for desktop or laptop or even handheld device use lately, unix started as a more network-native system than Windows, and in theory should be easier to morph into something that would facilitate a home server/client setup as you are describing. There is a catch though: many of the large commercial vendors that also support much of linux development these days would like to be that server for you, so they are more likely to sponsor software that makes it easy to connect to their data center than the software that would be easy to use to connect to your own homegrown data center.

I think that with recent (OK, 5-8 years) linux development we make same mistake which we made already few times. I'll try to describe this in "jewelery terms" Making good software is similar to making beautiful jewelers out of precious stones - first you cut rough planes and corners, then smaller and smaller until it is perfect (of course, to the human's eye ). So with, i.e., *buntu family we make just "major cuts" - we manage kernel, OS code&tools work really well. Those major pieces together are stable and secure. But we lack, let's say, "final cuts&polish" - developers do not analyze and implement decent "user stories" (or Use Cases in UML terms). One example is this one with Amarok. One more example from my experience - KOrganizer. I set up my Gmail account there - it is easy and quite straight forward. But where are my meetings and reminders in the KOrganizer's calendar from the Google Calendar ?
I don't get the idea of having separate steps to add my calendar. Why not have it in the same New Account Wizard ? I know that not all types of accounts have calendar, but we all know that Google's has one - this is "Google account in KOrganizer" user story !

I understand that linux has no such ultimate goal to beat Windows or iOS in the "War of OSes". My point is that we as a community (or all linux communities) could do better in our "own yard". Linux is powerful, free&friendly daily software. We just could polish a little bit further braking last small barriers and making it more user friendly. We could do that together - users&developers.

[sithlord48]

you can try adding it to your places area on dolphin . use nfs://<ip>/path of share it might work . i don't have nfs set up here to test atm. after the ip it maybe a / or : so try both . it still will not be auto but it will be easy to access.

[artbar]

you can try adding it to your places area on dolphin . use nfs://<ip>/path of share it might work . i don't have nfs set up here to test atm. after the ip it maybe a / or : so try both . it still will not be auto but it will be easy to access.

It's not working the case you need your NFS shares to be used, i.e., in Amarok - you cannot add a "place" to Amarok's local library
For general NFS browsing, copy&paste - maybe. But again, the experience is very "bumpy" - even using IP of my OMV with share's name I still get permission errors which I'm unable to solve . After I added the entry to fstab it started to work. That "lottery" is not for first-fime linux user.....

[sithlord48]

there is no NFS lotto its fairly easy to set up nfs and edit the fstab already.For what your looking for maybe something like KNetAttach does that editing already i have not used it so i don't know if it mounts on the fly or makes a fstab entry for future use then mounts.

[artbar]

there is no NFS lotto its fairly easy to set up nfs and edit the fstab already.For what your looking for maybe something like KNetAttach does that editing already i have not used it so i don't know if it mounts on the fly or makes a fstab entry for future use then mounts.

Then I do not understand this, please see the attachment (the translation of the error message):

Couldn't mount the device.
Error message:
Failed to mount /export, /export/Mediateka.

This I get after I click on my NFS share in the Dolphin. Found nothing in logs

But with fstab everything is just fine (of course after searching internet, trying different nfs mounting options in order to prevent infinite stuck on shutdown).

My complain is about not working Dolphin's features. And in addition about the implementation (I'm sorry for repeating myself) - adding a NFS place to the left panel of Dolphin doesn't solve i.e. Amarok's (or VLC, Gwenview) problem mentioned in my previous posts.