Settings vs. System vs. Utilities

[Guest]

It seems that these menu categories are quite confusing, what's the difference between System vs. Utilities for example? It seems there is a quite bit of overlap, and this can be confusing to the user. Also, if I clicked on the "Computer" icon in the default Kubuntu launcher, I get "Run Command" and then a list of local folders at the top... that's all? I expect here to find information on the PC, maybe KInfoCenter or better yet something like I-Nex for information on the PC. Important apps like KSysGuard should also be there.

Who is exactly responsible/working for the default Kubuntu out-of-the-box experience?

[vinnywright]

Unfortunately it is not possible to to have the "default" choices for these type of things be perfect for all users ,,,,,,,,,,,, Fortunately most of what you speak of can be changed to how you prefer .

rite click the Kickoff icon and select "menu editor"

VINNY

[Guest]

I've been using Linux for the last 15 years, so I know how to customize it myself, but I am talking about default settings. I do not think we should under estimate the power of defaults!! Perhaps a better way is to bring totally new users, never exposed to KDE/Linux and ask them to find information and perform tasks, and see how they perform. And this is how you build defaults, so that even new users get the most function of their system in the least amount of time. I spend the majority of my time on the command line, but I can't imagine any of my relatives, or even my co-workers doing the same. It would be really interesting to also see how they these new users go before something requires a "command" of some sort!

[claydoh]

Usually, it is the application developer who decides what category their software goes in, though packagers can edit this. The menu entries themselves are a standardized .desktop file that provides this sort of information, and all the different desktop environments read that. This sort of thing is directly imported from Debian, and for KDE specific stuff, directly from KDE.


My "Computer" section, which I never seem to notice or use lol, shows my phones (via kdeconnect), a folder on another machine, my website's ftp dir, bluetooth, etc. Basically, it shows folders I have added to dolphin's side panel, plus bt and kdeconnect entries. When I see "Computer", I personally think of it as a location, which is probably why I never use that tab.

A bit of sysinfo/kde info in there somewhere would be cool, though I don't think the standard kmenu supports that, I wonder if any of the alternative ones do/will? I bet now that the menu is done in qml, it may not be hard for someone to do this, if there was enough interest.


I though that Kinfocenter had been embedded into System Settings, but I don't see it there anymore in 15.10.

Kubuntu for the most part decides to go with KDE's defaults for default settings, so we don't stray too far from those.

Reporting an incorrect category on an application would be best reported as a bug on Launchpad, via
ubuntu-bug <packagename>

[vinnywright]

I've been using Linux for the last 15 years, so I know how to customize it myself, but I am talking about default settings. I do not think we should under estimate the power of defaults!! Perhaps a better way is to bring totally new users, never exposed to KDE/Linux and ask them to find information and perform tasks, and see how they perform. And this is how you build defaults, so that even new users get the most function of their system in the least amount of time.

cool .......now how to go about this is the queshton.

and by the way ,,,I ,,,me ,,personally have nothing to do with the choosing of the "defaults" ,,,,,,,,,,just saying
but I do think the ordering of the programs in the menu are pretty tight to the heading they are under ,,,,IMHO

I spend the majority of my time on the command line, but I can't imagine any of my relatives, or even my co-workers doing the same. It would be really interesting to also see how they these new users go before something requires a "command" of some sort!

yes that would be interesting as well ,,,,,,but I think one could get far these day's

VINNY

[vinnywright]

I though that Kinfocenter had been embedded into System Settings, but I don't see it there anymore in 15.10.

its an application under "system" in the menu



VINNY

[marco07]

@Vinnywright
Your desktop settings look pretty cool! What themes settings are you using?

[claydoh]

its an application under "system" in the menu



VINNY

I know that, it also was embedded in System Settings at some point as well.

Sent from my LG G4

[vinnywright]

@Vinnywright
Your desktop settings look pretty cool! What themes settings are you using?

firefox = stylus blue

window decoration=perfection

desktop theme=Diamond

wallpaper=Blue-twister (downloaded from "get new wallpapers" desktop settings)

VINNY

[oshunluvr]

I, for one, agree with the OP. I cannot for the life of me understand why the Terminal is in System rather than Utilities and KCalc is a Utility?? Someone please explain that to me.

I also noticed for 15.04 that all the Wine programs have fallen into Lost & Found rather than creating a proper Wine category like in the past.

utility program

Word Origin
noun, Computers.

1. system software used to perform standard operations, as sorting data or copying data from one file to another, for application programs or other system software.

It seems to me that what's in System and Utilities are sort of randomly assigned (could be in either) and others shouldn't be in either at all. I guess that's what you get when you leave it up to developers to decide which category their program falls under.

Although you can easily move a program from one to another section - but then you have to do it at every install or update and it's just too tiresome to make it a priority. After 17 years with linux and 7 with Kubuntu I still have to remind myself that Konsole is in System not Utilities - even though by definition it's a Utility program IMO. Thank goodness for Yakuake being just an F12 away...

[Qqmike]

Funny, I have also wondered about these categorizations, forever. But change them? and have to edit all those how-to's? ... Whoa!!!

[vsreeser]

I tend to find things by typing a few letters in the search bar. Course, if you're using a different launcher, you may not have that option

[MoonRise]

@oshunluvr

I've had that issue with WINE for a looooong time. Never figured out how to correct. Very annoying!!

[Teunis]

Yes people are different and have different expectations like after a new install I start by changing out the K-menu for the classic one.

I do believe that a terminal app like Konsole is the most direct way to interact with the system.
Finding a calculator under utilities should not surprise many although I believe it would also fit under Office.

Anyway, you can calculate in the Konsole using 'dc'.

These sort of differences are one reason why I believe KDE is the best DE, 'cause I expect reconfigurability!

[Guest]

The default ("out of box") experience is confusing, to say the least! Yes, we can configure it in so many ways, but that isn't going to happen if people are put off in those important first few days. The essential problem is that any series of menus has categories that sometimes do not give obvious clues as to where things will be found. What one person thinks is a "utility" somebody else will expect to find under "System", and somebody else will think the whole thing is stupid because it cannot be found in "Settings"! I think the tree search should be made easier by carefully redesigning the top level (fewer choices, and much more obvious names), and by letting something be found in several places (if it is a utility to change the system's audio settings, for example).

I recently had a problem stopping an mp3 playing... (Thunderbird started mplayer but there were no pause/etc controls anywhere to be found) the menu of options was frustrating, so it got me thinking how things could be better for newcomers. Added to that, I have had bad experiences with system setup UI in general (coming across many ways to do what I don't need, and important stuff obscured). Relying on menus within menus is a BAD idea if there are more than a few options and those options don't neatly fall within obvious categories, so I am thinking of a combination of menus and auto-completion text to help access all the applications and settings, with system info and help merged into the interface. There should be a few rules (such as only a few, obvious, steps being needed to get to the most important functions; no irreversible damage; beginner & power-user modes; audit trail for any changes) If others think it worthwhile I might go so far as to make a little demo to show what I mean.

Mark