Why isn't the flac package included by default?

[SeijiSensei]

Once again I discovered I had to install the flac package before I could rip a CD to that format. Why isn't flac included by default with Kubuntu? It's only 111 KB on 14.04 so it surely cannot be a problem with space on the distribution disc images which now come in around a gigabyte. Lots of people rip to FLAC these days, and it's now supported on platforms like Android. Why isn't FLAC part of the default distribution?

(Note I'm talking about the encoder here, not the decoder.)

[Buddlespit]

It might be because it's not all that mainstream. I don't think I've ever used any audio that required the flac codec. And installing anything more than what's needed is usually considered bloat (in my opinion. Someone else may call it preparedness).

[claydoh]

They do try to keep the iso size to the desired size, so not everything can be included. That 111kb could be used for added language things, or something else that would likely be more useful to more users.

[SeijiSensei]

It's not a question of anything requiring FLAC. Playback is handled by libflac which is shipped by default. I'm talking about encoding. Ogg Vorbis comes up as the default in K3b and is a decent alternative, but most people looking for a high-quality format prefer FLAC. MP3 is, of course, not really a contender here since it is patent-encumbered and lossy. WAV, like FLAC, is lossless but produces larger files since it simply encodes the analog waveforms without any compression.

So if you rip a CD, do you encode to Ogg?

[claydoh]

It's not a question of anything requiring FLAC. Playback is handled by libflac which is shipped by default. I'm talking about encoding. Ogg Vorbis comes up as the default in K3b and is a decent alternative, but most people looking for a high-quality format prefer FLAC. MP3 is, of course, not really a contender here since it is patent-encumbered and lossy. WAV, like FLAC, is lossless but produces larger files since it simply encodes the analog waveforms without any compression.

So if you rip a CD, do you encode to Ogg?

.....what is a CD??



Most people aren't ripping for quality, methinks.

It still boils down to making choices based on what is useful for the widest range of users while staying within certain limits.

[SeijiSensei]

It still boils down to making choices based on what is useful for the widest range of users while staying within certain limits.

Well, obviously, but I'd be surprised if the decision had anything to do with what would be its trivial effect on the size of the ISO image. I suspect it's simply not a priority item for the people who package the distribution. K3b comes configured to support encoding in FLAC by default, but it doesn't work because the flac binary is not packaged. If it were up to me, I'd make it a dependency of K3b.

I tried to find where to make packaging suggestions on the main Kubuntu site and got nowhere. Most of the verbiage seems designed to discourage such contributions. Perhaps I missed an obvious link?

[claydoh]

You can try filing a bug report for k3b on launchpad
ubuntu-bug k3b is the easiest way.

Asking on the kubuntu-devel mailing list is a good place to go, as well,
or on #kubuntu-devel on freenode irc

[SeijiSensei]

Thanks. I'll try the "ubuntu-bug" approach first. Most of the bug reporting help files want you to use apport which isn't helpful in cases like this.

[claydoh]

After that, bringing the topic up on the -devel mailing list. linking to it, is a great way to open the discussion.

[vinnywright]

I usually encode in Mp3 to keep file size down ,,,I dont hear a big diff in my headphones between FLAC,WAV or Mp3 .

now if it is a friend's cd and I dont have the original then it's FLAC and I can make a Mp3 for the phone or Mp3 player from that .

one of the first things I do after an install is install "kubuntu-restricted-extras" , "libav-tools" and whatever is missing from K3b>settings>configure k3b>programs,,,,,,,,usually "sox" and "transcode"

then "VLC" , QMplay2 , Kodi , DVD , Handbrake , Kid3 and Audacity ,,,,,,,prity good to go with audio and Video at this point

VINNY

[SteveRiley]

I rip to FLAC so that I have lossless but compressed "originals." If I'm listening at home, this is what I play. From there, I encode to Vorbis in Ogg for lossy (and further compressed) files to carry on my smartphone. I find Vorbis much easier on the ears than MP3.

FLAC is pretty widely used among folks who do this sort of thing; much more so than WavPack. The argument for adding FLAC has merit. Maybe we could drop pcmciautils? I mean, who has a computer with a PCMCIA slot still? Peope Can't Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms, anyway

[oshunluvr]

I rip to FLAC so that I have lossless but compressed "originals." If I'm listening at home, this is what I play. From there, I encode to Vorbis in Ogg for lossy (and further compressed) files to carry on my smartphone. I find Vorbis much easier on the ears than MP3.

FLAC is pretty widely used among folks who do this sort of thing; much more so than WavPack. The argument for adding FLAC has merit. Maybe we could drop pcmciautils? I mean, who has a computer with a PCMCIA slot still? Peope Can't Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms, anyway

Ditto.

[oshunluvr]

..but I don't have a problem typing "sudo apt-get install flac" either... lol

[claydoh]

I mean, who has a computer with a PCMCIA slot still? Peope Can't Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms, anyway

I do!! On two machines! What do I do with them? Nothing!!
A good case can be made for its removal of this, but historically anything taken out is to make room for new dependencies, or to add language support. This is a reason we don't have many themes/wallpapers included by default, for example.

I actually see a case for eventually removing k3b and its deps, but changing it's dependencies to include all the available decoders, encoders, and tools. But not yet.

..but I don't have a problem typing "sudo apt-get install flac" either... lol

Yup