[MULTI BOOT] Looking for 'how-to' set up new HDD

[wanderingarcticfox]

I'm looking to set up a new hard drive with Ubuntu and Kubuntu in a dual boot with a /boot partition MBR so I do not have the problems that crashed me last Fall. I found some information but could use some help on how to do this with 64-bit Kubuntu and Ubuntu. ref:http://www.hentzenwerke.com/wp/insta...asinglebox.pdf I figure to set up as follows:

/dev/sda1 swap
/dev/sda2 boot
/dev/sda3 Ubuntu
/dev/sda4 Kubuntu

It has been a long while since I set up a drive and my system was down for about 7 months so I am rusty. I have read some other documentation that suggest using the Ubuntu Server to set up Legacy GRUB in the boot partition but have never done that before and cannot find a lot of tutorials for Linux dual boot [most include Microsoft which I no longer choose to use]. I also do not find the Alternate Installation ISO with 14.04 U or K.

Thank you in advance for help with this installation issue.

[kc1di]

Hi,
you really don't need the boot partition at all, just install grub in the MBR which I believe is the default. And you do not really need to dual boot if your just wanting ubuntu and Kubuntu you should install ubuntu first. then you can add Kubuntu- desktop from the software repositories. install ubuntu first because kbuntu uses kdm desktop manager and it will not bring up unity. but ubuntu uses lightdm which will bring up both. Just a suggestion. Good luck

[jlittle]

Firstly, grub legacy is old now, you'll get better support with grub 2.
You only hint at why you want a separate boot partition, but I can guess the type of trouble you had; been there, done that. If one is trying different installs it's so easy to hose grub if something goes wrong. So, what you're asking for is

sudo mkdir -p /mnt/boot
sudo mount /dev/sda2 /mnt/boot
sudo grub-install --boot-directory=/mnt/boot /dev/sda

The draw back with this is that it will not be updated automatically when new kernels are installed, or when new versions of grub arrive. Also, it gets overwritten by the installer (for *ubuntus that's ubiquity); I've avoided that in the past by telling the installer to write the grub boot to the partition (in your case that would be /dev/sda4 when installing Kubuntu); that doesn't make sense to me but it worked. I think maybe ubiquity now has an option to turn that off, I haven't used it for a while.

You could remember to rerun the above when necessary, or ...

What I do is manually maintain /mnt/boot/grub/grub.cfg to use the /vmlinuz and /initrd.img symbolic links, which always point to the latest kernel and initrd image. I change the last two lines of the first menuentry from

	linux	/boot/vmlinuz-3.11.0-19-generic root=UUID=bbe52b06-dc17-4cd4-b5a8-5290b4f05f3f ro   
	initrd	/boot/initrd.img-3.11.0-19-generic

to

	linux /vmlinuz root=UUID=bbe52b06-dc17-4cd4-b5a8-5290b4f05f3f ro 
	initrd /initrd.img

I add similar "menuentry" stanzas for each other install I have, and a last one

menuentry "others" {
	set root='(hd0,msdos8)'
	search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root bbe52b06-dc17-4cd4-b5a8-5290b4f05f3f
        configfile /boot/grub/grub.cfg
}

which invokes the grub menu that has been maintained automatically.

Another drawback with my approach is that grub's "recordfail" mechanism doesn't work, because /etc/init.d/grub-common and /etc/pm/sleep.d/10_grub-common update the wrong place. But that's minor functionality, it just stops grub from booting unattended; that may be what you prefer anyway. I've added my own scripts to those directories out of bloody-mindedness.

Regards, John Little

[jlittle]

I figure to set up as follows:

/dev/sda1 swap
/dev/sda2 boot
/dev/sda3 Ubuntu
/dev/sda4 Kubuntu

BTW, that's a bit inflexible, it stops you from adding another partition, because the BIOS MBR only supports four primary partitions. If there's any chance you might want another, better to make the fourth an "extended" partition, so that you can have multiple "logical" partitions within it. It's a pain to have to destroy a partition to make an entry free for the extended partition...

Regards, John Little

[oshunluvr]

I agree with jlittle above if you're using MBR formatting (with GPT this doesn't apply). I also agree - with the exception of booting to RAID - you no longer need a /boot partition. Re. grub-legacy, I would avoid that as well - too much trouble to resurrect dead boot managers. Also, AFAIK, the Alternate Install CDs are no longer available. There is a Minimum Install CD that uses a text installer and lets you select which desktop and software sets to install, but you need an active internet connection for it to work. I used it recently and it worked great.

On to advice: If it were me, I would put swap as partition 1, then 16GB or so (+-4 GB) for Ubunutu and Kubuntu as partitions 2 and 3, then the remainder as extended (4) and 5 (the first logical partition) as a data partition. Then I would install my least used OS candidate first (Ubuntu?) and my primary OS last. That way, grub (grub2 AKA grub-pc, not -legacy) is resting within your primary OS. Also, rather than a separate /home, leave /home with each install and then link or bind mount to the /data partition and keep your media (Documents, Pictures, etc.) there. Then your files are all available to both installs, yet both installs have separate /home so settings and such for Ubuntu won't effect the ones for Kubuntu. This also keeps both installs totally separate so if you bork one, the other is still usable.

On a final note: If you choose to use btrfs instead of ext4 as a filesystem, you need not partition at all beyond the swap partition. Just a thought

[oshunluvr]

Also, Re. Grub: I use a separate and independent (totally stripped down) install for grub and link to my other installs using a 40_custom that accesses the other grub.cfg files on each install. A bit more work, but keeps grub safe.

[wanderingarcticfox]

I think I get the genral idea(s) here;

/dev/sda 1 /swap 16,000mb {I have 16 GB of RAM}
/dev/sda 2 /home 500,000mb
/dev/sda 3 /home 750,000mb
/dev/sda 4 /data remainder of HHD (1.5TB)

I want to use Ubuntu for everyday stuff but need Kubuntu for Free CAD where files can get real big. I do not want to access the CAD from Ubuntu, planning for extra HDD to use for CAD back-up.
Install Kubuntu first then Ubuntu [since that would be my every day usage].

Does this sound correct ?

[oshunluvr]

Yes to install Kubuntu first, then Ubuntu (really doesn't matter, but slightly simpler that way).

My idea of partitioning would be more like this:

/dev/sda1 /swap 16GB
/dev/sda2 Ubuntu 20GB
/dev/sda3 Kubuntu 20GB
/dev/sda4 Extended partition - remainder of HDD
/dev/sda5 /data - all of the Extended*

Then in the /data partition, create your folders for stuff: Documents, Pictures, Music, Videos, CAD, etc. Then boot to each install, mount the data partition permanently, and create the links to the folders your created. Leave "Desktop" in your /homes (not linked). Then all your media is available to both installs so you don't have to manually mount and retrieve a file if you want to access it from the other install. Same applies for email folders, virtual machines, etc. You wouldn't want to reboot to Ubuntu just to read an email while you're in the middle of a CAD drawing, would you?

IMO, you really don't want to keep your data files (any of them) on the install partitions just in case you totally break your install and have to re-install.

You say you're planning on extra HDD for backup? You mean a second HDD? That's the best option for backups. Just setup a cron job to do it automatically. If you're making backups to the same drive, a simple additional folder will suffice.

Also, just curious; why is a stand-alone Kubuntu install needed for your CAD program? You can add kubuntu-desktop to an Ubuntu install and simply launch your desktop choice at log in. None of my business of course, just curious.

* Re. the Extended/Logical partition advice: If you make sda4 a primary partition and then later want to add another partition (like you want to try another distro), you would have to remove all the data from sda4, then create the extended/logical partitions, restore the data, fix all the mounts and links, etc. If you create the extended/logical set up now, you would only need to shrink sda5 and create sda6 - no other work required.

[wanderingarcticfox]

Yes to install Kubuntu first, then Ubuntu (really doesn't matter, but slightly simpler that way).


Then in the /data partition, create your folders for stuff: Documents, Pictures, Music, Videos, CAD, etc. Then boot to each install, mount the data partition permanently, and create the links to the folders your created.

IMO, you really don't want to keep your data files (any of them) on the install partitions just in case you totally break your install and have to re-install.

You mean a second HDD? Just setup a cron job to do it automatically. If you're making backups to the same drive, a simple additional folder will suffice.

You can add kubuntu-desktop to an Ubuntu install and simply launch your desktop choice at log in.

I see the wisdom in the Logical Volume partitioning; I am guessing that a separate folder would be used for Music, Photos and Documents respectivly. How do I "mount" them permanently and link them to the OS.

What is and how do I set-up a "cron job" ?

If I add Kubuntu desktop to the Ubuntu install will the links make in the Ubuntu work with the Kubuntu then or will I need to create separate links to the data folders?

Will this usage of Ubuntu install with Kubuntu desktop inside void my worries about GRUB2 ? Unless of course I install another distro?

my Revised plan for installation:

sda1 /swap 12,000mb
sda2 /home 60,000mb Ubuntu
sda3 ? 60,000mb empty for posibble future use
sda4 /data remainder of 1.5 TB HDD logical vol.
sda5 /data 100,000mb Music
sda6 /data 100,000mb Documents
sda7 /data 250,000mb Pictures
sda8 /data 850,000mb CAD
sda9 /data remainder of HDD empty

what should I set up sda3 as; home, data, ??

[oshunluvr]

I see the wisdom in the Logical Volume partitioning; I am guessing that a separate folder would be used for Music, Photos and Documents respectivly. How do I "mount" them permanently and link them to the OS.

Mounting and linking are two different things. You mount a file system permanently in /etc/fstab and then you link to where ever you like. Symlinks work like "fake" folders. The system sees them like folders, but they're actually a path to another folder. Further explanation below

What is and how do I set-up a "cron job" ?

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CronHowto

If I add Kubuntu desktop to the Ubuntu install will the links make in the Ubuntu work with the Kubuntu then or will I need to create separate links to the data folders?

The point of doing it this way is so you don't have to have two sets of everything - including links and mounts.

Will this usage of Ubuntu install with Kubuntu desktop inside void my worries about GRUB2 ? Unless of course I install another distro?

GRUB is a boot loader, not a desktop manager. GRUB will not be aware of any desktops you have installed. Totally different animals.

my Revised plan for installation:

sda1 /swap 12,000mb
sda2 /home 60,000mb Ubuntu
sda3 ? 60,000mb empty for posibble future use
sda4 /data remainder of 1.5 TB HDD logical vol.
sda5 /data 100,000mb Music
sda6 /data 100,000mb Documents
sda7 /data 250,000mb Pictures
sda8 /data 850,000mb CAD
sda9 /data remainder of HDD empty

This is confusing to me as well as unnecessarily complicated and a waste of space. Every time you create a partition, you have to guess how much space you need for your intended use. Too little space and you have to make room somehow, too much space and you have empty GBs that could have been used elsewhere. Why have 6 separate partitions for what essentially the same stuff (personal data files)? One partition with folders on it to separate data would be easier and prevent a ton of wasted space. It's not like files in the Documents folder will somehow infect your CAD files in another folder.

what should I set up sda3 as; home, data, ??

If you're now thinking a single install, this is what I would do:

partition	use	size	notes
sda1 - primary	swap	16GB	same as RAM size
sda2 - primary	Ubuntu	30GB	Main OS
sda3 - primary	reserved	30GB	Future OS
sda4 - extended		ALL REMAINING
sda5 - logical	/home	HALF OF sda4	home files
sda6 - logical	/backups	HALF OF sda4	backup of above

This will give you plenty of room for Ubunutu with the Kubuntu desktop included, room to install a future or another distro without disturbing Ubuntu, around 600GB for personal files and another 600GB for backups of your personal files.

IF you are adding a second hard drive, you would not need sda6 because the backups would be better on a different device. Then you would have 1200GB for data files.

[wanderingarcticfox]

I've been reading and trying to learn from 'Beginning the Linux Command Line' by Sander van Vugt; I am starting to learn about things that I cannot find in tutorials because I have no desire to use DOS. I do thank everyone for their replies and will use another thread soon to seek guidance and information.
I will for now mark this thread as solved, though my issues are still under investigation. Thx again to all that replied.

[wanderingarcticfox]

OK: Gonna shut this down as solved; That is a missnomer; look for new threads conncerning Dual booting of Linux w/o microsoft and shared logical partitionds which are LVM.
Concider this thread closed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!