Stop the Hype and Get Real -- To K(U)buntu Team

[K0LO]

Re: Stop the Hype and Get Real -- To K(U)buntu Team

OK, I can't resist jumping in here either. Both Windows and Linux require you to dig deeper beneath the surface if you want to be an effective troubleshooter. I am usually amazed at the otherwise very competent Linux users who have invested years becoming proficient and then they complain when something doesn't work right away in Windows. If they had invested one-tenth of the effort in learning to fix Windows that they have invested in Linux then they would be competent in both operating systems.

In this thread we are seeing the other side of the coin. People who are used to things "just working" in Windows are reluctant to struggle and learn something new. To me, the time that I've invested learning Linux has paid enormous benefits for me. I have learned more about computers and even more about Windows by doing this.

Keep at it; it's worth the struggle.

By the way, the Windows update problem bit me too. I looked up the error code and it was "server overloaded". A few hundred thousand people trying to download the same update at the same time. A few hours later it installed flawlessly.

[shadowfx78]

Re: Stop the Hype and Get Real -- To K(U)buntu Team

Bongo5HH in response to your reply to your post pertaining to my post.

I have helped numerous people when i can and if i know how. I learn new things every day on linux and i like that fact. On windows it seemed non-stimulating.

[Freddan]

Re: Stop the Hype and Get Real -- To K(U)buntu Team

If they had invested one-tenth of the effort in learning to fix Windows that they have invested in Linux then they would be competent in both operating systems.

Difference is that you have paid for Windows but you haven't for Kubuntu.
If you pay for some sort of software (or hardware) I would expect that it works and works great.

[K0LO]

Re: Stop the Hype and Get Real -- To K(U)buntu Team

Difference is that you have paid for Windows but you haven't for Kubuntu.
If you pay for some sort of software (or hardware) I would expect that it works and works great.

Yes; I did and it does. Despite all of the Microsoft bashing that you'll hear on Linux forums, I'm really satisfied with Windows XP. It is the most bullet-proof OS that I've ever used, and I've been around since the CP/M and IBM 360 days. I've had an XP box live on the internet 24/7 for 5 years now. It never quits. It's never been hacked. It's never had a virus. It's uptime, reliability and usability is better than any of my Linux boxes. Don't get me wrong; I love 'em both and you couldn't get me to give up Linux if you tried.

My point was simply that any OS takes skill to operate effectively. They're amazingly complicated creations that are a marvel of complexity and it's a wonder that they work as well as they do. To get the most out of them you can't be superficial. You have to dig down beneath the surface to understand them in enough depth to be competent with them.

Just keep in mind that things that are different are not the same. French is not English and English is not French; they're different. Windows is not Linux and Linux is not Windows. They're different. You need to learn both languages and not complain about the differences. They are different.

[Freddan]

Re: Stop the Hype and Get Real -- To K(U)buntu Team

Yes; I did and it does. Despite all of the Microsoft bashing that you'll hear on Linux forums, I'm really satisfied with Windows XP.

Well, I'm not.
If you wander of to the inner workings of XP, it's a mess. Bulletproof?!? you must be kidding with me, you just can't be serious. Only reason XP "works" at all, is mostly cause every hardware manufacture supports it.

[K0LO]

Re: Stop the Hype and Get Real -- To K(U)buntu Team

Believe what you want but I am not going to argue with success. I have built many XP installs for friends and family including my wife and my mother, both of whom are very inexperienced computer novices, and they have withstood the test of time with zero problems.

OK, enough. Before you think I'm just a Microsoft shill, let me say that this new release of Kubuntu Edgy is the best performing Linux distribution that I've ever used on my laptop. Battery life is improved over Dapper and getting pretty comparable to Windows (averaging 16 W on Dapper, 14 W on Edgy and 12 W on WinXP Tablet Edition). Hibernation and Standby are a huge improvement. On Dapper it took almost as long to wake from hibernation as it did to cold boot. Now it only takes 30 seconds, and wake from standby only takes 5 seconds. Kubuntu just keeps getting better and better.

[D1SxEyes]

Re: Stop the Hype and Get Real -- To K(U)buntu Team

Ok, I'm not a programmer, or a CS student or anything like that, but I do have a "higher-than-average" understanding of these two areas. As far as I can tell, Kubuntu is one of the most polished distros currently available for free. Ok, so it's not perfect. Sometimes it doesn't work for certain things. Essentially though, I think we need to remember the open-source model. A programmer will write a driver for some hardware he has that doesn't work, because he wants it to work. He'll then release that code to the world, in the hope that it helps someone else, but, well, it doesn't really matter to him, because his computer works.

Open source is needs-orientated. If no-one says "hey, could someone please let me know if there are any drivers available for xxx", then no-one will know that xxx needs drivers, and no-one will write xxx drivers. Even the best programmer in the world can't write a driver for a device he doesn't have. So, complaining about something you didn't pay for that doesn't work for something you probably got cheap won't do any good. If you send the developers some money, or even a device, with a request for them to see if they can knock together a working driver for it is more likely to get you your driver.

Kubuntu has grown out of a host of people needing things, and coding them themselves. It's no more than a collection, really. Bitching at the Kubuntu team about releasing software when it's not ready is completely in disagreement with what you were saying. They released it because it'll help some people. If it doesn't work for you, FIX IT YOURSELF, or wait until someone else with the same needs as you, and the desire to hack it into the distro, fixes it for you. This release of Kubuntu works absolutely fine with my computer, which uses mainly generic parts. If it doesn't work on your computer, should the Kubuntu team hold back the release? No, because then I'm not benefitting from all of the changes that have been made since Dapper, and although the Kubuntu team aren't required to provide me with Edgy, because I haven't paid for it, it's kind of the point.

I don't hate Windows.
No, really, I don't. Considering how huge a job it is to write an entire OS, Microsoft have built something that works 98% of the time, and that 98% of people know how to use. Ok, so it's bloated, it crashes, and it's proprietary, but it's not bad. I use linux because I like the things it offers that Windows doesn't. It offers better security, it offers fantastic programs like amaroK, and Kontact, for no extra charge. Once you've downloaded the OS, you can get the best programs for it without shelling out more. XP ships with Outlook Express, Kontact has similar functionality to the full version of Outlook, which costs a hell of a lot more.

Sorry for ranting, but people who don't appreciate the level of effort that people dedicate to projects like Kubuntu really annoy me.

D1SxEyes

[podunk]

Re: Stop the Hype and Get Real -- To K(U)buntu Team

What do people expect in 6 months? :-) You're downloading a complete OS that was adapted, updated, changed and intergrated in 6 months.

A small team of developers and a group of volunteers can't be reasonably expected to find all the bugs in 6 months for goodness sakes, much less fix and polish them.

Microsoft has something like 5000 coders. They started on Vista the day after they burned the final release of XP, and it's been what - 7 years almost? And it's still buggy?

So to expect a bug free release every 6 months is so unrealistic as to be insane.

It takes 15 or 20 minutes to back up my Kubuntu install. I did a back up and downloaded Edgy to play with.

To many configuration issues for me - it's a great release for the experienced hobbyist, but for a fairly new user with not a lot of time to devote to the install it's not the right mix.

I restored my 6.06 backup in less than 30 minutes.

[lingenfr]

Re: Stop the Hype and Get Real -- To K(U)buntu Team

Ya know, it is shocking how many requests for assistance go unanswered on this forum, but yet moronic threads like this one just won't die. If you have time to waste, please click the link in the top right that says "Show posts without replies yet" and see if you can help someone. Once again, to the Kubuntu Team, thanks for what you're doing.

[ROMI]

Re: Stop the Hype and Get Real -- To K(U)buntu Team


THANK YOU KUBUNTU TEAM.
I just want to be on record.
Windows has BILLIONS of dollars in support. Kubuntu (et. al) has essentially $0.
It's amazing to me that a product this good, entirely free, even exists.
I would be embarased to be so whiney while contributing NOTHING to something as good as Kubuntu is.
Just my two cents.

Again, THANK YOU KUBUNTU TEAM

[craiglarry]

Re: Stop the Hype and Get Real -- To K(U)buntu Team

Regarding installs, before you start a flaming, frigging war like this, if you are dual-booting with winxp(I think prob many are doing that) or some such thingy, do a dskchk on your first system partitions. I've installed from two live cds over winxp on two different computers and it would NOT GO the first time. After I did dkschk, one took 2.5 hours because it found orphan files lurking in the zone where Linux wanted to install, they both installed like friggin champs. Maybe your prob is not with Linux but with good ole winxp defrag Hell! The second didn't show any such serious probs as the first, but still after a full dskchk, it just did it's duty. So try it. Might be better than all this ffflaming guff. I'm generally happy with the first go round of Ubuntu 6.06 LTS from Canoncial. The first five other distos I tried wouldn't even go online.

I think the poster above raises the valid point, we do brag about it's 'Ease of Use' and that's just it, Linux is easy to use just like XP is easy to use and GEM was easy to use, but nowhere do we say Linux is easy to install.

To the trained person any operating system is easy to install, to the untrained person in the street any operating system would be a nightmare the first time they installed it. I've installed many operating systems over the years, from CP/M, DOS, OS2/Warp (and if you think Linux is hard just try OS2/Warp), GEM, Windows (all versions including servers) and of course Linux in various flavours.

All the above required some learning time, some more than others but that is what life is all about learning new things.

So far Mandriva 2006/2007 and Kubuntu 6.06/6.10 are by far the easiest to install by a long way. There are problems with the distro, just like there are problems with XP (and now Vista), but we as humans have the knowledge to overcome these problems and get a working system.

If anyone had said to me in my teens that 45 years later I would be using a computer to talk to anyone in the world in real time, play music from bits of round plastic, play games that look almost like the real world and write silly bits of text like this, I would have thought either they were drunk, daft, or from another planet.

So lets just enjoy the fruits of the labours of the multitude of programmers and others and thank them wholeheartedly for their sterling work, and if you don't like what they do then get off your backside learn to program and put it right as you see the world.

My thanks to everyone who contributed to Madriva and Kubuntu, regards, P.

[hugortega]

Re: Stop the Hype and Get Real -- To K(U)buntu Team

I agree with many people in say THANK YOU to people behind, inside and front of Kubuntu :-) ...

I don't care if Kubuntu is better or not than Windows (for me, it's fairly best, but it's just my opinion as a tech guy)... but, the thing that I love of (K)ubuntu is the idea of a *community* world with amazing results... in these days, in which the world is not a friendly place for million of people, this kind of projects are just fantastic...

People who don't understand that we can not demand nothing to someone who is given us a gift... well... you know...

thanks again :-)

ps sorry for my english

[Nakrull]

Re: Stop the Hype and Get Real -- To K(U)buntu Team

to say this: Ubuntu - people live with people, people need people, people affect people, People feel people
in other more magical way GAIA
Ubuntu connects us all the K before for me

my Kubuntu booted and installed just fine
athlon64 3200+ a8n-sli se dual pci-E 320gb sata 2gb mem LCD 17 (the most generic of all LCD i could find no to spend to much)
except for my geforce6800xt (40 min approx)
but that's n hard nut to knack
nvidia-glx n editing the xorg worked perfectly after about n 20min the same time win takes to COPY his stuff from the CD and setting up the hdds no to mention the driver n software search afterwards OK i have everything i need backed up up but it still takes time

that took the developers some real time of their lives if not even the so called mighty MS cant do it
no network problems 3 cpus 2win 1kubu n hub and adsl router i can even access the routers menu from konkeror with win had to download plug-ins n stuff
in resume i took me about 3 hour to figure linux out
I'm a real newbie downloaded the CD ISO of kubuntu 2007/01/02 had 10 years of ms **** started my PC experience with win95 in school I'm 22

criticism is good silwersparow (just kidding his not) but u must be an complete dork not to get it to work if u work in such an big software consulting company, buy yourself and usb that is supported with linux
besides I'm happy not to buy bugs in my OS if i have them at least they are FREE

something to add to V.I.S.T.A (virus infected spyware n troyans addwared) (sorry to change it but cant remember the original version ) MS works whit big sam and as u know has a "really great" new law that in other word legalize Sam to put spyware in ur pcs to contoll the people who us it
kinda x-files but in pc land it very possible n also easy

so i say
hail Kubuntu long live linux
chears nakrull