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    A sensible discussion about covid

    https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/sensi...ovid-strategy/

    In March, only the small fraction of infected people who got sick and went to the hospital were identified as cases. But the majority of people who are infected by COVID have very mild symptoms or no symptoms at all. These people weren’t identified in the early days, which resulted in a highly misleading fatality rate. And that is what drove public policy. Even worse, it continues to sow fear and panic, because the perception of too many people about COVID is frozen in the misleading data from March.
    ...

    When it came out, this Santa Clara study was controversial. But science is like that, and the way science tests controversial studies is to see if they can be replicated. And indeed, there are now 82 similar seroprevalence studies from around the world, and the median result of these 82 studies is a fatality rate of about 0.2 percent—exactly what we found in Santa Clara County.
    ...
    It still seems to be a common perception that COVID is equally dangerous to everybody, but this couldn’t be further from the truth. There is a thousand-fold difference between the mortality rate in older people, 70 and up, and the mortality rate in children.
    A great difference indeed. For the US, from Feb 1, 2020 until Dec 2, 2020, the TOTAL number of school age children from ages 6 to 24 that have died from covid is 483. That's not a typo. For that we've shut down schools and colleges for two terms. More kids in that age range have died from flu than covid.

    See Table 1 on the following CDC webpage:
    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ekly/index.htm

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    Those 483 died because of their "co-morbidities": cancer, diabetes, leukemia, or accidents, etc.

    Meanwhile, during the same period, 196,843 people 65 and older have died of Covid. That's 79% of the total covid deaths. Many in that age bracket will die of old age, sick or not. About 17.5% are in the 45 to 64 age group. Many of those have co-morbidities. That accounts for almost 97% of the total deaths.

    Dr. Jay Bhattacharya continues:
    The widespread lockdowns that have been adopted in response to COVID are unprecedented—lockdowns have never before been tried as a method of disease control. Nor were these lockdowns part of the original plan. The initial rationale for lockdowns was that slowing the spread of the disease would prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. It became clear before long that this was not a worry: in the U.S. and in most of the world, hospitals were never at risk of being overwhelmed. Yet the lockdowns were kept in place, and this is turning out to have deadly effects.



    Those who dare to talk about the tremendous economic harms that have followed from the lockdowns are accused of heartlessness. Economic considerations are nothing compared to saving lives, they are told. So I’m not going to talk about the economic effects—I’m going to talk about the deadly effects on health, beginning with the fact that the U.N. has estimated that 130 million additional people will starve this year as a result of the economic damage resulting from the lockdowns.

    ...
    In the last 20 years we’ve lifted one billion people worldwide out of poverty. This year we are reversing that progress to the extent—it bears repeating—that an estimated 130 million more people will starve.
    He goes on to explain how the Covid mess created by mismanagement and denying science should be repaired in the Great Barrington Declaration – "As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists we have grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies, and recommend an approach we call Focused Protection. ", signed by over 43,000 doctors and scientists, and many lay people as well.
    https://gbdeclaration.org/
    "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
    – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

    #2
    @GG, thanks for this info. It matches with my own opinion, ie. that this is a crisis manufactured by TPTB. It's about the issues of power and control, not public health.
    Kubuntu 24.04 64bit under Kernel 6.10.2, Hp Pavilion, 6MB ram. All Bow To The Great Google... cough, hack, gasp.

    Comment


      #3
      I think the argument for keeping them out of school is not that the kids will get it and die, but that they will spread it without symptoms to more at risk people.

      As an American who lives outside of America, is a little mind boggling seeing the American response to Covid to be honest. The wild conspiracy theories, the flat out refusal to wear masks, the reluctance of the government to do more... I dont get it.

      Comment


        #4
        If you accept the word of governments and agencies such as the CDC and WHO, ie. that COVID is an actual medical pandemic, then you are being herded and corralled as sheeple. There is enough evidence that the actual fatality rate (not the infection rate) is being falsely inflated. Attribution of COVID as the cause of death, rather than other comorbidity factors (like other diseases, old age, physical trauma) is used to create a higher morbidity rate.

        This tactic is both reprehensible and a sign that we are being manipulated. Main Stream Media - MSM (If It Bleeds, It Ledes) is partly responsible for misleading the public, but is not the only culprit involved. Yes, this idea smacks of right-wing hyperbole but that too is being used to distract the general public from doing their own due-diligence research. "Just listen to Big Brother and get in line, suitably spaced and masked to avoid easy discussion among the sheeple"... No meetings are allowed.

        Do a NON-Google web search and educate yourself. Be skeptical of what MSM news sources are saying. Think for yourself. 'nuf said...
        Kubuntu 24.04 64bit under Kernel 6.10.2, Hp Pavilion, 6MB ram. All Bow To The Great Google... cough, hack, gasp.

        Comment


          #5
          I have done all sorts of searches , non-google.

          My conclusion?
          Using terms like 'sheeple' reduces any credibility to zero , as if people can't do the same sorts of research and come to different conclusions.
          The Twain quote about lies and statistics being apt here.

          While the so-called MSM wants to corral people in one direction, the not-MSM, which is just a different MSM, wants to corral in a different one, using a different "bleed" to lede. Sheeple calling other people sheeple




          I have to side with whatthefunk on the external, non-US perspective a fair bit, though the mask wearing refusal may be a bit overblown most of the time.

















          G** **** it, why did I reply on a topic that does not , im-extremely-nsho, belong on a tech support forum . Argh.

          Comment


            #6
            @claydoh, Sorry if my terminology is offensive, I find "sheeple" to be a good and accurate descriptor which does carry a derisive connotation. It is describes an undesirable way of behaving. My use of that term is intended to draw attention to unthinking behavior and dangerous reliance on what the media (both sides) are pushing. A slap to the face, if that will help make people become aware of their behavior.

            However, using it as a search term doesn't make sense in this context. RE COVID, searching for terms like "comorbidity", "COVID infection rate" and "COVID mortality rate" make more sense and may reveal the disparity between the various "news" reports and what we are being told by CDC and WHO, among others.

            IMO, not humble, I think the public is being deliberately misled about COVID. It is a case of "never let a good crisis go to waste". I'm saying that from a personal age that puts me in the high morbidity category, were I to believe the "lies, Dam* lies and statistics" about COVID.

            Yes, this is posted in the water cooler sub-forum.
            Kubuntu 24.04 64bit under Kernel 6.10.2, Hp Pavilion, 6MB ram. All Bow To The Great Google... cough, hack, gasp.

            Comment


              #7
              Once COVID-19 became dominated by politics, rather than science, rational discussions are impossible. The best we can hope for is that people will start to listen to medical and scientific professionals in the not too distant future.

              While kids do get sick, and some tragically die, from COVID-19, the big problem is the young being more the vector/carrier. That has been explained many times, but if people refuse to listen to the science and turn instead to political "wisdom", then the truth gets hidden. The truth is not lost, nor is it changed, it just buried in the muck of political rhetoric.
              The next brick house on the left
              Intel i7 11th Gen | 16GB | 1TB | KDE Plasma 5.27.11​| Kubuntu 24.04 | 6.8.0-31-generic



              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by TWPonKubuntu View Post
                If you accept the word of governments and agencies such as the CDC and WHO, ie. that COVID is an actual medical pandemic, then you are being herded and corralled as sheeple. There is enough evidence that the actual fatality rate (not the infection rate) is being falsely inflated. Attribution of COVID as the cause of death, rather than other comorbidity factors (like other diseases, old age, physical trauma) is used to create a higher morbidity rate.

                This tactic is both reprehensible and a sign that we are being manipulated. Main Stream Media - MSM (If It Bleeds, It Ledes) is partly responsible for misleading the public, but is not the only culprit involved. Yes, this idea smacks of right-wing hyperbole but that too is being used to distract the general public from doing their own due-diligence research. "Just listen to Big Brother and get in line, suitably spaced and masked to avoid easy discussion among the sheeple"... No meetings are allowed.

                Do a NON-Google web search and educate yourself. Be skeptical of what MSM news sources are saying. Think for yourself. 'nuf said...
                The death rate isnt really the concerning bit, its the fact that serious cases require ICU care. If the number of serious cases explodes, like it has in the US, then the ICUs get overwhelmed. If ICUs do not have the staff, space, or equipment to properly care for patients, the death rate of both covid and non-covid patients goes up.

                Let's not do any internet searches all and look at the facts.
                - Coronavirus spreads easily
                - It can lead to serious illness
                - It requires ICU care to treat serious cases
                - There is limited ICU space, staff and equipment
                - Taking some precautions like wearing a mask, washing you hands regularly, not going out as much, and maintaining social distance helps prevent the spread of infectious disease

                So thinking for myself, it makes a lot of sense to wear a mask and to try not to go to crowded places for a bit until it eases up.
                Last edited by whatthefunk; Dec 06, 2020, 09:35 PM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by whatthefunk View Post
                  The death rate isnt really the concerning bit, its the fact that serious cases require ICU care. If the number of serious cases explodes, like it has in the US, then the ICUs get overwhelmed. If ICUs do not have the staff, space, or equipment to properly care for patients, the death rate of both covid and non-covid patients goes up.

                  Let's not do any internet searches all and look at the facts.
                  - Coronavirus spreads easily
                  - It can lead to serious illness
                  - Taking some precautions like wearing a mask, washing you hands regularly, not going out as much, and maintaining social distance helps prevent the spread of infectious disease

                  So thinking for myself, it makes a lot of sense to wear a mask and to try not to go to crowded places for a bit until it eases up.
                  I totally agree, as a small business owner (craft beer bar) I'm doing all I can to protect myself, my wife and my customers. I'm in the over 60 crowd with a pre-existing condition so I take all those precautions!
                  Constant change is here to stay!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by whatthefunk View Post
                    I think the argument for keeping them out of school is not that the kids will get it and die, but that they will spread it without symptoms to more at risk people.

                    As an American who lives outside of America, is a little mind boggling seeing the American response to Covid to be honest. The wild conspiracy theories, the flat out refusal to wear masks, the reluctance of the government to do more... I dont get it.
                    In May of this year both the CDC and Dr Fauci said that cloth masks were not effective in preventing the transmission of virons.

                    Fauci also said that virons are not transmitted by asymptomatic carriers.
                    https://newtube.app/user/NoNewAbnormal/31RImei
                    These are the facts I was taught in grad school and were the facts I taught in my Microbiology courses for pre-nursing.

                    The CDC collected all the research it could find on the efficacy of cloth masks from 1946 until July of 2018. They filtered it down to the best 10 random controlled trials (RTCC's) and published their conclusion that masks to not protect the wearer from viron infection nor prevent the transmission of virons from a symptomatic carrier.
                    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

                    "Face Masks
                    In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks...
                    "

                    The link shown above is inactive because the CDC took it down, but I captured it before they did that.

                    Here is the video of Dr. Fauci stating that "in viruses of any type, asymptomatic carriers have NOT been the driver of outbreaks"
                    https://newtube.app/user/NoNewAbnormal/31RImei
                    That video was on YT and it was also taken down, but not before someone had captured it and posted it to NewTube.

                    The AAPS (American Association of Physicians and Surgeons) presented data on the effectiveness of cloth masks, along with N95 and HEPA masks.
                    https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/
                    (Keep in mind that a Covid virus is 0.125 µm in diameter)
                    The AAPS is not alone in their evaluation. There are many, many studies from around the world which bear them out.

                    If one wants to persist in wearing masks (because of a local mask mandate or out of fear) I'd recommend spraying your mask on the outside and inside with a solution of 1% Zinc Citrate and allowing the mask to dry before you wear it. Zinc deactivates the Covid virus, among others.

                    BTW, when you are at the store note how many people have their nose outside their mask, or their mask isn't tightly fitting and exhalation is escaping out the sides and just below the eyes. Also notice how often they fiddle with their mask and then touch things on the shelves. Even if masks did work their hands would pick up Covid from the mask surface and spread it to other items on the shelves, their wallets, car keys, steering wheel, grocery bags, etc.

                    The CDC has some other very interesting web pages. The following, which I've linked to before, is very informative:
                    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ekly/index.htm
                    Take a look at Table 1 and notice that it is divided into age groups. Total the death counts in the ages from 5 to 24, which would include all school and college students in the US. As I pointed out before, the total deaths in the US from Feb 1st to Dec 2nd is 483. The only kids who die from Covid had "co-morbidities", which were the actual cause of death. About 99.999...+% of all school kids are asymptomatic if they contract Covid. Dr Fauci, and science for years, says they are not drivers of outbreaks.

                    The Table 1 graph points out the obvious: those MOST susceptible are in the 85+ age group, which shows 77,959 deaths, also mostly due to co-morbidities or old age. The 75-84 age group had 67,305 deaths. The 65-74 age group had 53,579 deaths. The 55-64 age group had 30,875 deaths.
                    The total deaths for the 55-85+ age group is 229,718 deaths. The total deaths supposedly due to Covid is 249,570. The 55-85+ age group accounts for (229,718/249,570) 92% of ALL covid deaths, with those in my age group or higher accounting for 58.2% of all deaths.

                    What's the common sense thing to do? At our age and medical condition the best course of action for my wife and I is isolation and sanitation.

                    And, a final observation:
                    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
                    It has links to every state in the US. On those links are the graphs and data for "Daily New Cases" and "Daily New Deaths". Notice that in the majority of states the new cases is in the thousands and the new deaths is in the tens. And its been that way since the first wave died out. The media has been hammering South Dakota becuse it's Conservative gov won't impose mask mandates and other restrictions like California and Colorado are doing. But, take a look at California:
                    https://www.worldometers.info/corona...sa/california/
                    Its daily new cases has jumped to 28K but its daily new deaths is at 111. That's a deaths/newcases ratio of 0.4%, which is lower than the rate of the current flu season. And, has it has been noted at several sites, the normal use of the PCR test involves a maximum of 35 amplifications. At some locations they are using 40-65 amplifications. The inventor of the test, Kary Mullis, said that if you go over 35 amplifications you can find almost anything in any body and that is an abuse of the test. It also explains how the new cases count skyrocketed in early November and why it has such a high false positive rate.


                    Finaly, here is a John Hopkins graph of daily new cases for all 50 states on one page.
                    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases-50-states
                    I took the time to determine when mask mandates were imposed in the 35 states that imposed them either state wide or in selected locals. I found that the graphs look essentially the same regardless of when any mask mandates or behavior restrictions were imposed. Masks oviously can't, and didn't "flatten the curve". So, why impose them?
                    The sooner we arrive at herd immunity the faster C19 will go away.
                    "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                    – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

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