Just Fired Microsoft

[TWPonKubuntu]

@TexasGuy1988. yes, my last post was directed at you.

Since you opened a new Google account, they are now tracking you, again...

I never used Google for email nor did I ever create an account with them. They still know me by my IP address and I'm certain there are one or more entries in their database...

Never try to play with that snake. It is poisonous.

[jlittle]

... Google ...
Never try to play with that snake. It is poisonous.

Hammering away at this criticism of Google, starts to sound like a virtual echo chamber, IMO very like many conspiracy theories, or corporate propaganda.

Why are they so bad? Sure, Google is an advertising company, and they provide all those convenient services the better to sell advertising about you to their customers, who have learned that using Google is far more effective than older advertising methods.

But, it is not in Google's interest to sell you out, or to facilitate selling you out. I'm aware that this is a pathetically weak defence of Google. There are a few others, like Google playing nice with open source projects (we wouldn't have an Ubuntu-based distro without Google's support of Canonical), but still weak.

Other big corporates have far worse records for poison, especially Microsoft, Apple, and Facebook. Why the hate for Google, compared to them?

In fact, much of the criticism of Google originated in FUD from other companies, particularly Microsoft. Also, being outside the politics of the USA, I hear a strong resonance from (what I call) right-wing criticism of "liberal" companies and Google's critics. Anything associated with that morass of deceit, denial of science, and brain-washing makes me inclined toward any opposing view.

Now, my opinion is that much of what Google does needs to be far more open and subject to public oversight. However, Google resists this strongly because they have to work so hard to stay ahead of those who want to manipulate the advertising results. (IMO far-reaching laws that make deceit and manipulative actions illegal are needed, but that's another colossal issue.)

But, the clincher is, Google's tendencies to drop whole platforms, or change the way they work, or go off in completely different directions, while paying almost no attention to what their users say, or argue, means it's a huge risk to depend on them. I'll come to like and rely on some service, finding it far better than alternatives, then they'll make a change and I'm screwed. For example, I only still find Gmail tolerable because I can use alternative e-mail clients and IMAP to access it.

So, how to de-Google, and avoid becoming locked in to some other service provider? (I'm exploring having my own services in a hosting service somewhere, so that I can move it easily. As a Kubuntu user, I've found I've got a huge headstart in spinning up an Ubuntu instance.)

• In this thread a poster said the first step is to use search engines like Duck Duck go.
• How do I move off Gmail? Is it necessary to have my own domain, so that I control my e-mail address? And contacts generally, I don't now any open server software that I could use.
• Google maps is good because it's running on so many phones, so it knows where congestion is, and how long various routes take. An alternative, say from Duck Duck Go, just won't have the data that Google has. I think this is a case of the public good needing an open, regulated, repository of movement data, maybe much as phone books became subject to regulation. But, is there something I can do now?
• YouTube? Many people have become dependent on that platform, and have been mucked around by changes there. I try to support worthy content creators, but it quickly adds up.
  
  But what can we do?

[TWPonKubuntu]

@jlittle, I'm aware that you disapprove of my anti-google point of view. That remains your right and privilege.

In response to your final question: "But what can we do?"

I think I have made it plain how I advise dealing with Google (and other big players in the online data game). In a nutshell, cold turkey withdrawal. Do not support them.

If you want alternatives, there are certainly options open to you. I've mentioned them in my other posts. You can find them via a non-google search.

If you harbor a desire or need to enter into a flame war (yes, I'm that old) about this, then I will politely decline.

As I've said before: it is a jungle out there. I think and hope that you know this.

'nuf said.

[jlittle]

@jlittle, I'm aware that you disapprove of my anti-google point of view. That remains your right and privilege.

In making my point my objective was to find out about people's reasons for their "anti-google". I really fear that I am ignorant of Google's transgressions. When I asked "Why the hate" I was not being rhetorical.

If you want alternatives, there are certainly options open to you.

Again, I was not being rhetorical. I much value the ideas of the posters here over the results of a search. Searching for software solutions generally is a pain because most of the results are Windows centric, and implicitly so, making adding "-windows" not useful. So, searching for software that does not involve Windows or Google, that is also good for a Kubuntu user, can be difficult.

[TWPonKubuntu]

Mr. Little, Start with using DuckDuckGo.com as your search engine. There are also other engines which promise to give you results from Google without revealing your identity to Google. Whether that claim is true, I do not know. I no longer trust Startpage.com because they were sold to a business which collects and sells user information, so trust must be continuously earned and can be withdrawn at any time.

You have already made the choice to use Linux. You may still be using Microsoft products, but your use of Linux is, IMO, a wise direction to be moving. The OP of this thread has also made that choice and is learning how to use the Linux system. All good.

Also, 'hate' is the incorrect term to use about my opinion about Google. It is distrust and not just by a small amount.

As for WHY I don't trust Google, well... you won't find the reasons (multiple) for that if you use the Google search engine. I'm sure you are familiar with the term 'shadow banned', usually applied to social media but equally accurate with respect to Google search results.

Expand your information source list, even if it means reading some material which does fit the category of "conspiracy theory', which you will need to filter with your own common sense. Welcome to the World Wide Web.

RE your previous comment:

Other big corporates have far worse records for poison, especially Microsoft, Apple, and Facebook. Why the hate for Google, compared to them?

I'm not excluding any of those companies from the list of untrustworthy businesses. I am targeting Google because there are too many people who are simply using Google results as if they were certified and vetted by some ultimate authority... They are not.

Think of Google as the ice cream truck luring customers with a catchy musical jingle or the mule driver leading a mule with a carrot hung by a string in front of their nose.

I'm advising people to stop using Google, which in turn leads to searching for other information sources which have less bias.

In no way am I trying to act as a shill for other businesses. It is up to each of us to make an evaluation of how much trust may be placed on each business. I AM warning against some businesses, Google being high on that list.

I suspect that I've gone far enough off the tracks and the mods for this forum are feeling increasing anxiety. I've pointed out a direction for you, but it falls on you to explore it. [end]

[GreyGeek]

Hammering away at this criticism of Google, starts to sound like a virtual echo chamber, IMO very like many conspiracy theories, or corporate propaganda.

Why are they so bad? ...

Other big corporates have far worse records for poison, especially Microsoft, Apple, and Facebook. Why the hate for Google, compared to them?

.....

So, how to de-Google, and avoid becoming locked in to some other service provider? ....

• But what can we do?

Want proof of Google's ethical shortfalls? Start with "Dragonfly". Google censored reports that it shut out its own security teams from that project.

Then consider that Google owns YouTube and YouTube, like Facebook and Twitter. they censor conservative views. Of course, theDailyBeast and MediaMatters! don't see any censorship on any of those platforms.

But, I don't care any more. I don't create YT content, nor do I do business at Google's store, nor do I do business with any company that buys Google ad space. The only way Google, YT, FB or Twitter get any benefit from me is by selling my demographic data, which they have been doing anyway for the last 5 years and no doubt are doing so now. I use their search engine, or DDG or SP. I use their email service, google earth and google maps and Gdrive because they are free. If they start charging to use those apps I'll stop using them and use something else.

My ISP offers an email service, which I use. I also use a free email service based in Norway. I played around with the four major P2P tools and found them all wanting. IF I were to focus on one it would be FreeNet, and only because I could set up an encrypted tunnel from my computer to theirs, for select people. ZeroNet and IPFS are too awkward and eat up too much of ones CPU, storage space and ISP bandwidth. Many ISP's prohibit using your computer as a public file server in their ToS. IPFS, for example, takes 200 Mb for each connection. During my tests, which I wrote up here on KFN, I had at one time, over 600 simultaneous connections from peers, or 120Gb of diskspace, with constant read/write activity. To make matters worse, you really didn't know who each 200Mb belonged to or what they had stored there because it was all encrypted. If you knew their KeyID you could set your browser to it and browse the site. You could be storing pron, terrorists plans or what ever, and you'd never know. But you could be convicted for it anyway.

I purchased a static IP address from my ISP for $5/month, but I never have installed Apache. My original thought was to make my 140Gb of personal data available remotely for me and my kids, but I have a 256Gb SD chip in my Android phone and it contains all that data. KDEConnect allows me to resync when ever I change something, so I don't even need a VPN when I am at an eating place or where ever.

[shag00]

I'm advising people to stop using Google, which in turn leads to searching for other information sources which have less bias.

I always think it's a good idea to clearly delineate issues in a complex subject. Prior to this post my understanding was an overarching distrust of Google with the specific issue being the resale of personal data being collected in an unscrupulous way. The quote above opens a new issue, that being of bias. I think the two issues are very different, the original issue is one which a person has little to no control over while the second issue is one which confronts us every time we hear or read someone else's views.

The first issue needs to be addressed by government the second issue is not really possible to fix.

[woodsmoke]

OBS (Open Broadcast Software) is now the defacto standard for most desktop recordings for YouTube and Twitch, and it is free. Why pay for something that isn't as good as OBS?

.

Hi GG, a great post as usual!
I did NOT EVEN KNOW about OBS.. I'm going to FINALLY be publishing my book on a "revolutionary" reef aquarium system for schools, through Amazon, and will have to do the "usual rounds" for things like You Tube.. so THANKS!
woody

[woodsmoke]

Hi TG1988,
Glad you are here and don't be a stranger!
woodsmoke

[Don B. Cilly]

The way I see it, it's a simple trade-off.
Sure, Google (and pretty much everyone else) collects, stores and even sells my "personal" data.
In exchange, they provide very useful services that happen to work quite well.

To me, it's a good enough deal. In the end, it comes to a minor annoyance.
A much bigger one I find my phone company selling my phone number to telemarketers who actually invade my privacy.
A few sites showing me ads (on which I don't click anyway) for exactly the same product I've just bought :·) or FB showing them for things I could not possibly be interested in (they bypass adblockers) - which shows how good their algorithms are ;·) does bother me a bit. Just a bit.
Fair enough trade, IMHO - or I would stop using them.

Now, the "personal" data that are being collected and used... I simply don't care about.
Any personal opinions, I willingly publish. Once published, they're public. They're meant to be.
What I want to keep to myself, I don't put online. Or look for online... without precautions. Luckily for me, there seems to be very little of it.

Of course for me that's easy. I'm retired too.
If I were, say, a journalist, or had a business dealing with sensitive information, I would have to "compartmentalise" a lot more.
Use invasive services for some things, and take the appropriate precautions for business-related communications.

Now, the beef I had with Microsoft - and still have with Android. which BTW is a whole OS designed for privacy invasion - is not so much personal data, it is that they both don't allow me to do things my way... in any way.
Android is even worse in that respect. Like you have a ton of apps that you can't delete or move to the SD card... to start with.

But as to privacy... with every dodgy government actively spying on me anyway, and without asking for permission anyway, should I be worried about Google?
Hmmm.

[shag00]

Microsoft - there latest on Github enforced change of password. You have 2 choices 8 digits with a number and a lower case alphabet, or 15 digits (anything). My initial password met one of these conditions but they cancelled it anyway. So I tried with 2 new passwords, one of each choice and both were refused. And at the end of the day if someone wants to jack my Github account I could not care less. Same deal for ordering groceries which are paid C.O.D., security almost as bad as a bank. If someone wants to know what brand of cling wrap I use they could just ask...

[TWPonKubuntu]

...
But as to privacy... with every dodgy government actively spying on me anyway, and without asking for permission anyway, should I be worried about Google?
Hmmm.

The answer is 'yes, you should be worried'. Giving up your privacy without a fight is never a good idea...

[Don B. Cilly]

But as I've said, I have no need to fight. What I want to keep private, I keep private, what I do online I pretty much publish so it's public.

Now, my phone conversations with my friends and family, I'd like to keep a bit private, just on general principles you know, but Google owns the OS that runs my phone, FB owns whatsapp which I have to use unless I want to spend zillions on international calls, and all governments store them anyway, whatever I use.. :·)

I do have an Ubuntu phone. It can't run whatsapp, so I'd have to carry two phones around and CBS.
If I cared about privacy I'd tell everyone (er, well, people I care about) to install Telegram and mainly use that phone, but then, what Telegram does with my conversations is anybody's guess - and you can guess - and... I'm just glad I don't have privacy issues because it would really be resource-intensive to adopt proper countermeasures, it would :·)

[TWPonKubuntu]

Sigh. It remains up to you...

[Don B. Cilly]

Of course it does, but don't sigh for me

I'm well aware of online privacy concerns.
I fact, I even stubbornly resisted getting a "smart" phone until about a year ago - and immediately after that got the Ubuntu one.
Now, those are a privacy nightmare.

Thing is, I fought the stuff for years. It really quite annoyed me. I still use browser compartmentalisation, all sorts of ad&track blockers, reasonably private e-mails and all the common sense - the actually effective weapon - I can use.

In the end... it's a bit of a lost battle, I don't need to do anything even vaguely private online anyway, the trade-off works for me, it still annoys me a bit, but that's all it is, an annoyance, worth the deal.
I can always change my mind, but as it is...