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    Is privacy using ANY OS a myth?

    Over all the last ten years or so I have been paranoid about my privacy. When Google reversed its "Do No Evil" motto I deleted my Google account. I was amazed back then to learn that they had account, login name and password for every account I had for the previous ten years, several of which I had totally forgotten about.

    I only used private search engines like DuckDuckGo and Startpage.

    My hosts file grew to 1.4Mb and included redirects to 127..0.0.0 for every known Google site, especially the analytics, tracker and adbot sites. Also for Facebook, Apple, Microsoft and Twitter although I never had a Twitter account and used Facebook for less than a month when it first started.

    I never used Chromium browsers, preferring FireFox or other privacy concerned browsers instead. On my iPhone 6+ I installed the Dolphin browser and used it exclusively. I never visited sites like Kubuntu, Slashdot, etc., on my iPhone because I have enough trouble seeing the screen and typing on a regular laptop.

    I always used different passwords on every site I created accounts at and never used a password vault which would let me use a single password to access them all.

    Then, my iPhone 6+ got touch disease and when I could no longer tolerate it. So on July 25, 2019 I bought a new phone, a Redmi Note 7 running Android 9.0 Pie.

    I knew that Android is to Google what iOS is to Apple. Android gave me a choice: use a Chinese Cloud service or use Google or don't sync your apps.

    I decided to try Google. And, I wanted my Android to do something my Apple could never do, sync with my Kubuntu 18.04. They both use Linux, right?

    The hosts file was replaced. I created a Google account.

    On my Android phone I ran Chromium, but installed FireFox also. I also installed the Google Contacts, Mail and Calendar app. I activated the Developer Mode and enabled USB connectivity, along with installed the adb tool on my Kubuntu so I could issue commands to my phone that the Note 7 Android OS didn't have the option of doing.

    I had tested Chromium one time under a QEMU-KVM virtual machine running KDE Neon about 3 or 4 years ago. I didn't save any bookmarks and when I was done testing Chromium and I deleted that virtual Neon when I was done.

    Use Tor, you might advise? I did on occasions, but even with a 300Mb symmetrical OF connection Tor is slow and even with intermediate server stops with IP swapping and GUID switching Tor users can be tracked. And, as an American citizen residing in a free country I wasn't doing anything that would really require Tor or a P2P connections, all of which I tested and found wanting.

    Now, considering that I had never used Chromium beyond that simple test and had blocked, to the best of my ability, all connections with Google, imagine my surprise when, during the installation of Chromium, it asked if I wanted to install saved bookmarks. Out of curiosity I said yes. Every bookmark on my FireFox browser going back for years and right up to the most recent, including those I had deleted, was loaded into the Chromium browser.

    So, even with the hosts file blocking everything Google related, and using AdBloc, and GhostBusters, etc, and using DuckDuckGo and Startpage, and using the most conservative settings in FireFox, Google was able to keep track of everything I've been doing with my browser over all that period of time. My guess: using FireFox to shop on Amazon or EBay or various other online stores, resulted in one or more of them peeling data from my browser. Google probably got it from one of them. So, forget worrying about the NSA or other gov spooks. No matter what you do your data is flying around the globe if you spend any time on line. Sending 1,400+ Google domain names to the infinite bit bucket probably isn't a 1/10th of the invasive sites they have tracking your. Using P2P (IPFS, FreeNet, ZeroNet, etc...) isn't a guarantee. Maybe Slashdot or the NFOA sold my info? The Dark Web, which uses .onion extensions and blockchain, didn't save the owner of the Silk Road from being surveilled and captured.

    Avoid the web and use cash at local retailers? They have surveillance cameras and time stamped receipts. Those two pieces of technology have been used to identify many miscreants.

    So, what to do? Smile! You're on candid camera!

    *goes back to lurking
    Last edited by GreyGeek; Oct 07, 2019, 11:17 AM.
    "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
    – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

    #2
    Hi Greygeek, good to see you here again.
    You make a cogent point about our online privacy and the lack of it.
    Sadly, too many people will not see this as a problem, nor act to preserve their privacy.
    I am in despair for the future of our society. Orwell's Big Brother is here.

    Let the naysaying begin. We told you so...
    Kubuntu 24.11 64bit under Kernel 6.11.0, Hp Pavilion, 6MB ram. Stay away from all things Google...

    Comment


      #3
      For browsers, I compartmentalise.
      For phones, I have a phone with Ubuntu Touch. In the end I almost never use it because it can't do Whattsapp, and pretty much all I use the phone for is that.
      But in case you don't, (hmmm...), it's an old Nexus 5 I got on eBay for 50 bucks. Works really well. Installing with ubports is really easy.

      Google, not much you can do. It's a better search engine than... pretty much all of them.
      You shop on eBay and Amazon... they're very aggressive on surveillance capitalism. Especially eBay.

      It's a trade-off (as usual). Surveillance capitalism works. It gives you things in return.
      Annoying, yes. In the end, it's a minor annoyance, really. It can be mitigated. A bit.

      Of course, if you have secrets, it's another matter. You can use Kali and Tails, and spend a lot of time and effort on security.
      It may be worth it to you... or not.

      Comment


        #4
        Yep,
        I was a volunteer at Castle Cops a decade or so ago and the scale of the tracking, bots, keyloggers, etc. was mind blowing then...we had a spreadsheet that was, as I remember.. 110 lines of threats and 32 columns of preventitive measures. And we were SO effective that the site was literally inudated 24/7 for almost a month and the two people actually running it literally said..."we give" and they shut it down...BUT it WAS a learning experience. I will describe what happened to one woman below and it was SCARY.
        I got involved with Kali a few years ago and the SCALE of things out there is mind blowing.
        I RAIL against all of this stuff on my FB, former students and family only, and the response has been ...ho hum..."If I'm not doing anything wrong, what should i care"' attitude.

        The woman.

        A woman e-mailed us, it was all e-mail and said that someone had taken control of her cursor! :0
        It was all hands on deck concentrating on just HER.
        the main folks, I was very low on the totem pole actually set up a virtual machine of some kind that could VIEW here desktop, it was on a laptop with wifi. Most folks were not using wifi back then ...
        The person was describing in text to the rest of us what he and she were seeing and he threw every analytical tool that we had at it and could not get ahold of the cursor or the person moving it.
        The person would send an e-mail to her every once in a while about what he was doing with the cursor and THEN he describe what her blouse looked like and her hair and the people running her operation told her to put tape over the laptop camera.

        Guess what... I immediately put tape over my camera on my several laptops and i now keep tape on my phone camera unless I am actually capturing an image.

        ACTUALLY we should also put tape over the microphones also.

        So...the denoument of what was happening to her?

        the people running the place and a few others determined that, because he would "come and go" in terms of running her cursor, that he/she was in a car driving around and had a laptop IN THE CAR to stalk her.

        She swore up and down that she could not think of anyone who might be stalking her.

        We had the ISP all that and she was told that the only thing that could be thought of was to literally turn off the laptop and then UNPLUG it and the very next day that she should take it to a "computer hospital" and have it checked out and to file a police report with the ISP that had been figured out.

        It was not "roaming" it was a fixed ISP in Los Angeles so the person was doing some kind of routing from it to the laptop in the car... or maybe not...

        Anyway, she said that she would do that and disappeared, never to be heard from again.

        So...just WHAT was going on... was it really a "test" of some kind to determine what we could do...or was it real, did she / he / it / we / you / they really have a stalker? Nobody knows...

        But, when people TELL YOU that there really ARE bad actors out there that can literally take your information sitting outside your house in a car, believe them.

        Soon after that I found Linux and deleted Windblows and never looked back...as of now..."Linux" / "Ubunut" is relatively safe... the exploits are all pointed at the money maker which is Microsith.

        woody

        Comment


          #5
          https://infogalactic.com/info/First_they_came_...

          You are the first and last line of defense.
          Today, the battlefield is the 'net and there are fifth column troops everywhere.
          Your firewall has been breached.

          'nuf said.
          Kubuntu 24.11 64bit under Kernel 6.11.0, Hp Pavilion, 6MB ram. Stay away from all things Google...

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by GreyGeek View Post
            Every bookmark on my FireFox browser going back for years and right up to the most recent, including those I had deleted, was loaded into the Chromium browser.
            Didn't it just read the bookmarks from the Firefox install there and then? I imagine the deleted ones are in the Firefox history.
            Regards, John Little

            Comment


              #7
              If you've read Schneier's Beyond Fear (I have)... it's a trade-off. Security vs. usability.
              And of course, his blog is a must-read, isn't it? :·)

              [EDIT] Actually, this one from a week ago on 5G and all is rather worth reading...
              Last edited by Don B. Cilly; Oct 07, 2019, 01:20 PM.

              Comment


                #8
                GG: Avoid the web and use cash at local retailers? They have surveillance cameras and time stamped receipts. Those two pieces of technology have been used to identify many miscreants.
                Exactly so. I've known many employees at retails stores--Big Box, Walgreens/CVS/etc, small stores. You might be surprised at all the identifying info they have on those cameras. All to catch #1:shoplifters and #2:various other crooks.

                I'm also somewhat careful-to-paranoid about privacy. As a matter of principle, not that I have anything to hide (I only hide my hearing problems from my primary doctor, denying that I have any problem hearing), but I think you should give your consent to anyone wanting any info on you. At least so in a democracy, or a pre-Trump democracy anyway.

                But here's an aspect or a twist or a thought on all this google searching. I search on tons of stuff, sometimes almost at random, sometimes when I'm bored or just wanting to run my keyboard, picking this-and-that subject. And I do tons of searches to help others who ask me questions about every subject you can think of. So, WHO am I to Google? Or, WHO does Google think I am?! Ha! If you go by my searches, I'm a little bit of everything. I didn't do this intentionally, but it's a thought for someone trying to fool the enemy as he flies over.
                An intellectual says a simple thing in a hard way. An artist says a hard thing in a simple way. Charles Bukowski

                Comment


                  #9
                  I live in Peru and have a national identity card, like everyone else who is a citizen of this country. I have to use it for almost any transaction, even using a credit card at the supermarket. So I get ads from any company which has access to my number, which are surprisingly quite a few. It's not a big deal for me, as I just delete what i don't want (which is almost everything) and that's that. A few years ago, however, my e-mail was hacked by some busybody (a lot were hacked at that time), and Google advised me so I just set up a new one and that was that--I thought. A few weeks ago, I got a an e-mail in G-mail's spam section which said it had my Google account password and and had hacked my browsing history and found a whole lot of porno sites which they would release to all the names on my address list unless I sent them a lot of money. Well, they printed my password, and sure enough, it was the one that got hacked a few years ago. So I deleted the spam message and nothing dire has happened. I don't visit porn sites anyway, but if I did, I might have been worried. In the end, the loss of privacy is becoming irreversible, thanks not only to Google and Facebook and Twitter and etc., but also due to the very nature of our devices and what people want from them.

                  Loss of privacy is the tradeoff for the uses of the handheld computers we call smartphones, and we won't ever get that back as long as we continue to go online.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by jlittle View Post
                    Didn't it just read the bookmarks from the Firefox install there and then? I imagine the deleted ones are in the Firefox history.
                    Last spring in this forum I mentioned that SmartCtl was telling me that my two spinning drives were throwing errors and were in pre-failure mode. A couple of months or so ago one died and I replaced it with a Samson EVO 860 500Gb SSD. It was one of my archive units for my @ and @home backup snapshots, plus a data directory. I decided to re-arrange things and clean stuff out, so I re-installed 18.04.1. Including FF. I pulled my photos, movies, source code and personal info from the most recent @home backup but I didn't pull over any apps except AppImages, and FF is not among them.

                    I thought that somehow Chromium was reading it off my SSD, but when examining the .mozilla subdirectory I found that the bookmarksbackup directory contained only two entries, one for on 2019-09-25 and one 2019-10-01, both only 1.3Kb each, while my old bookmarksbackup was 6.5Mb, which was on 16.04 and my old 18.04. And, many of the bookmarks Chromium loaded were way before I did a new of 18.04 a year and a half ago, replacing 16.04.

                    Chromium, for example, picked up a link for a Parker IQAN zip file containing the GUI dev tools I used to write that tractor PLC software. I removed that link over five years ago. I never added that link to FF a year and a half ago, or even to 16.04. Earlier this summer I removed links to all news and political websites. They were back, so I deleted them again.

                    When I installed FF fresh I had to relog onto this forum and to do that I had to look up the password in my printout. Chromium had my login name and password for this site. mmm... thinking about it ... I wonder if they picked it up from my Android phone? It has FF on it and even though it is very difficult for me to read this forum using a phone, that could be the source. ... checking ... Nope, not many bookmarks on that app.

                    Thinking about the time line ... Chromium never asked to import bookmarks from other browsers until I approved syncing between my phone, this laptop and the GDrive, gmail and contacts on my Google account.
                    "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                    – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Qqmike View Post
                      Exactly so. I've known many employees at retails stores--Big Box, Walgreens/CVS/etc, small stores. You might be surprised at all the identifying info they have on those cameras. All to catch #1:shoplifters and #2:various other crooks.

                      I'm also somewhat careful-to-paranoid about privacy. As a matter of principle, not that I have anything to hide (I only hide my hearing problems from my primary doctor, denying that I have any problem hearing), but I think you should give your consent to anyone wanting any info on you. At least so in a democracy, or a pre-Trump democracy anyway.

                      But here's an aspect or a twist or a thought on all this google searching. I search on tons of stuff, sometimes almost at random, sometimes when I'm bored or just wanting to run my keyboard, picking this-and-that subject. And I do tons of searches to help others who ask me questions about every subject you can think of. So, WHO am I to Google? Or, WHO does Google think I am?! Ha! If you go by my searches, I'm a little bit of everything. I didn't do this intentionally, but it's a thought for someone trying to fool the enemy as he flies over.
                      He does look in your ears when he checks you over, doesn't he? So you can't be using aids that fit inside the ear canal. Do you leave your hearing aids in your car before you go into his office? I am getting very hard of hearing, especially when my wife talks, she claims!

                      I use the Internet like it was the Library of Congress and search on many, many topics. At 78 I am amazed at how much stuff I've forgotten, even though I used to know it like the back of my hand. They might think I was a cook because I give my wife breakfast in bed every morning, and keeping it from getting boring is a challenge. I constantly review math and physics YT videos. I recently created a YT channel with the idea of upload videos of me and my grandson playing Minecraft. YT's metrics said that I watch an average of 5.3 hours of YT videos a day! Hermitcraft, iLmango, MumboJumbo, xisumavoid, SpaceX, PBS Spacetime, docm77, Ancient Architects, Scott Manley, Sampson Boat Co., Gone With The Wynns, Sabine Hossenfider, Broncolirio, ElectroBoom and many,many more. Oh, Alton Brown's new cooking channel... and old movies that are free.
                      "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                      – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by oldgeek View Post
                        I live in Peru and have a national identity card, like everyone else who is a citizen of this country. I have to use it for almost any transaction, even using a credit card at the supermarket. So I get ads from any company which has access to my number, which are surprisingly quite a few. It's not a big deal for me, as I just delete what i don't want (which is almost everything) and that's that. A few years ago, however, my e-mail was hacked by some busybody (a lot were hacked at that time), and Google advised me so I just set up a new one and that was that--I thought. A few weeks ago, I got a an e-mail in G-mail's spam section which said it had my Google account password and and had hacked my browsing history and found a whole lot of porno sites which they would release to all the names on my address list unless I sent them a lot of money. Well, they printed my password, and sure enough, it was the one that got hacked a few years ago. So I deleted the spam message and nothing dire has happened. I don't visit porn sites anyway, but if I did, I might have been worried. In the end, the loss of privacy is becoming irreversible, thanks not only to Google and Facebook and Twitter and etc., but also due to the very nature of our devices and what people want from them.

                        Loss of privacy is the tradeoff for the uses of the handheld computers we call smartphones, and we won't ever get that back as long as we continue to go online.
                        *shakes head* There are scumbags in the world ...

                        Are you concerned that your government might establish a Social Credit Score like China uses? It is "Big Brother" on steroids. Here is a parody YT video about England on a SCS system.


                        I wouldn't be surprised that a SCS appears in England within a decade or earlier, and also in America. The big howl would come when the SJW's realize that they are being scored just like everyone else is. Surprise, surprise.
                        Last edited by GreyGeek; Oct 07, 2019, 08:25 PM.
                        "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                        – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          @GG

                          Selective hearing loss.

                          Do you leave your hearing aids in your car before you go into his office?
                          I've been putting off getting hearing aids and am not using any. I have been tested (2002), and so know what I've got (or worse now).

                          Here's how the darned medical profession can provide better service: TRAIN their young, high-pitched girls to speak clearly, enunciate, and in a louder voice--and look up at you when they do all this. The people who check you in, check you out, take your info, and so on. Fast-talking, high-pitched, low-volume, weak, squealy murmurings!
                          An intellectual says a simple thing in a hard way. An artist says a hard thing in a simple way. Charles Bukowski

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by GreyGeek View Post
                            *shakes head* There are scumbags in the world ...

                            Are you concerned that your government might establish a Social Credit Score like China uses? It is "Big Brother" on steroids.
                            Not at all concerned. The president has just dismissed the Congress and there will be new congressional elections in 4 months to finish out the last 18 months of this congressional term before general elections in 2021, which is a bicentennial year. I don't think there will be much interest or time to set up a social credit score!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              When I began noticing a hearing problem I tested myself online. I don't remember which site I used but here is a list of tests:
                              https://mynoise.net/bestOnlineHearingTests.php

                              Then I went to Amazon and purchased two BTE Seiman hearing aids for $115 each. I did the adjustments on the setting screws to level out my hearing response and I've been wearing them every since. Going on 4 years now. Here is one similar to what I bought
                              https://www.amazon.com/Banglijian-He...NsaWNrPXRydWU=
                              "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                              – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

                              Comment

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