Kubuntu 18 vs. Ubuntu 19

[Don B. Cilly]

So, Kate doesn't go yadda yadda on the other 4, just on the main office one?
In which case blaming poor little Kate is a bit unfair...

I don't hate Gnome. I hate grub. ;·)
Let's say I don't hold it in the highest regard. Especially when compared with KDE.
As to the reasons, how about the ones detailed in the first post here.

[WWDERW]

So, Kate doesn't go yadda yadda on the other 4, just on the main office one?
In which case blaming poor little Kate is a bit unfair...

Technically Kate is only on the main office rig. Kwrite is on the other 4. While they both share the same underlying base or core there are some differences there (negligible in this case I know).

As to it being unfair. Everything single install of KDE that I've had on this main office rig has had same issues. How the Cintiq handles, how Kwin handles. I haven't mentioned this next one in this post, but I have in others and that is bleachbit. After so many times of running it, it would refuse to run in GUI, so I run it via script through Yakuake only. Virtualbox does have one quirk under KDE and not under Cinnamon, I don't know if I'm missing something else that I have to do or not, but it does have one quirk.

While fubar an install is quite possible, regardless if it's guided or not, but having those same issues every single fresh install (of course, I've stopped checking with Bleachbit, I just run the script). The Cintiq I run right out of the gate, right after a fresh install, before anything is installed just to cut down on the variables. Every single install. I have a hard time thinking that I'm borking all the KDE installs, and not the Cinnamon ones. I find that hard to accept.

I don't bother with Kwin anymore on this rig, just disable it from the get go. Apparently the effect(s) it generates I don't really use or notice that are missing, so it doesn't bother me.

Especially when compared with KDE.
As to the reasons, how about the ones detailed in the first post here.

Isn't Ubuntu more of a "modified" Gnome versus a vanilla Gnome? Have they gone back to a pure Gnome experience now? To be honest though, when I'm talking about Gnome it's with regard to Cinnamon and that's really far removed from Gnome Shell. I haven't had a pure experience with Gnome Shell since Fedora 22.

Don't get me wrong, despite the little quirks that I have to deal with, I still think KDE far excels Cinnamon in other ways. Even with it's options (versions of KDE past 18.04 that is) with the Cintiq are far, far better then Cinnamon. I guess it's more of spit 'n polish issues with me. When issues like that affect a user directly, it chisels at the pedestal that the DE is on, because , in this case, it not only affects efficiency of use, but also ones ability to earn a living as well.

[Don B. Cilly]

I don't know what sort of Gnome Ubuntu 19 uses. I mean, it says 3.32.0, but whatever that means... I've used nothing but KDE for some 8 years now.

Anyway, I just got me a Mint 19.2 Cinnamon VM (the virtualboxes.org kind), I'll check it out.
I'll probably end up making a Cinnamon-disparaging thread... but we'll see.

About hardware incompatibilities on your main rig... it's not using Wayland without telling you, is it? Try echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE
Just kidding, I'm sure it's not that... and I'm sure you've searched and asked.

I'm still puzzled as to why the vast majority of people - who I'm sure don't use particularly funky hardware - tend to use Ubuntu over Kubuntu.

[WWDERW]

Anyway, I just got me a Mint 19.2 Cinnamon VM (the virtualboxes.org kind), I'll check it out.
I'll probably end up making a Cinnamon-disparaging thread... but we'll see.

It's not bad. The only advantage for me, is that it's totally stable with regard to my Cintiq and I don't have to disable the compositor. Otherwise, I totally prefer KDE, but I do value stability fairly highly as well. The time that I'm taking to search out things, takes away time from my actually using and making a living using said software. That's the frustrating part, otherwise, KDE is miles a head compared to other DEs.

it's not using Wayland without telling you, is it?

If it is, that would be a no-no in my book. And I haven't actively changed anything from the defaults with regard to that. I don't even know if the wacom drivers have been ported over to wayland or not.

I'm still puzzled as to why the vast majority of people - who I'm sure don't use particularly funky hardware - tend to use Ubuntu over Kubuntu.

You have to remember, most of the ones going from Windows (or Mac) don't realize that there are all of these choices or how to wade through these choices if they are aware of them. When I first tried Linux for the very first time back in 2010, I wasn't aware that there was all this DEs available. I downloaded the main Ubuntu.

I have a feeling that that hasn't changed and that's why you are probably getting the vast majority of users doing that. I'm speculating, but that's what I'm thinking.

Running Dolphin as root is not that difficult.

I still get "can't run dolphin as root" in Kubuntu 18.04.03 using the commands that were listed.

[Don B. Cilly]

If it is [using Wayland], that would be a no-no in my book.

Well, paste echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE in a terminal, if it says x11, it's not.
And it probably isn't, I was just kidding. I made a "cilly" thread about it a while ago...

When I first tried Linux for the very first time back in 2010, I wasn't aware that there was all this DEs available. I downloaded the main Ubuntu.

That's what I did too. Even though I've been using CLI Linux on servers since 1995, I had never tried it with a DE on a desktop until... 2006 or so.
Then Unity came out, I went "Aaaargh!" and started looking for alternatives. Look, my first post on this forum
I got lucky and found Kubuntu at first try. Never looked back.
I tried some KDE-based distros too, like Mint, always found Kubuntu better.

I have a feeling that that hasn't changed

I guess it hasn't. Even though, I thought, these days, wealth of information... but I also guess the "information" is what it is... you check distrowatch, see where Kubuntu is in "interest". Way below Neon, which is much the same.
Still, you know what's funny? I use Neon Unstable (which is basically K18.04 with a more updated Plasma) and it's the most stable release I ever tried :·)

I still get "can't run dolphin as root" in Kubuntu 18.04.03 using the commands that were listed.

Well, what happens if you paste that command into a terminal?
If I do, it asks for a pw an then starts it.
What errors does it give you?

[WWDERW]

Well, paste echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE in a terminal, if it says x11, it's not.
And it probably isn't, I was just kidding. I made a "cilly" thread about it a while ago...

I did. I got back "X11: command not found"

I guess it hasn't. Even though, I thought, these days, wealth of information... but I also guess the "information" is what it is... you check distrowatch, see where Kubuntu is in "interest". Way below Neon, which is much the same.
Still, you know what's funny? I use Neon Unstable (which is basically K18.04 with a more updated Plasma) and it's the most stable release I ever tried :·)

All of my others run Neon and it's been stable. Although twice on my son's mini PC we had to do update right after one in TTY as it wasn't booting into GUI, but that solved it. Otherwise, been very stable. I think for most people they are coming from having something "just work" (or just work more then this) and aren't used to (or not wanting) to do further research.

I would speculate that if other people that used the Cintiqs (or other niche/unique hardware) that tried Kubuntu and had the same issues that I'm having, they would have gone to a different DE. Most of them need stability, so I think some of that may be playing a part in there as well. It's much easier for me to just go with Mint and deal with the lack of options, but have a far more stable working platform then have to spend time diagnosing other issues (directly related to the Cintiq) that don't exist in Cinnamon. At least not in my experience. I think some of that my be playing a part as well. While some people enjoy troubleshooting (and to a degree I find it fun), some just need things to work so they in turn can get work done.

Well, what happens if you paste that command into a terminal?
If I do, it asks for a pw an then starts it.
What errors does it give you?

I only did that command yakuake. It asked for the password and then give me that error that I mentioned earlier in yakuake.

[Don B. Cilly]

I did. I got back "X11: command not found"

Er. I should have used "code" tags. My bad.

echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE

Still, it will say x11...

I only did that command yakuake. It asked for the password and then give me that error that I mentioned earlier in yakuake.

The error being "can't run dolphin as root"?
Try it in "full" konsole. It must say something else...

[EDIT] The command being:

pkexec env DISPLAY=$DISPLAY XAUTHORITY=$XAUTHORITY KDE_SESSION_VERSION=5 KDE_FULL_SESSION=true dolphin

right?

[WWDERW]

Er. I should have used "code" tags. My bad.

echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE

Still, it will say x11...

Yep, x11.

The error being "can't run dolphin as root"?
Try it in "full" konsole. It must say something else...

Yep, does the same exact thing. Executing Dolphin as root is not possible. Both in Yakuake and in konsole. Those are the only terminals that I have on my install.

[EDIT] The command being:

pkexec env DISPLAY=$DISPLAY XAUTHORITY=$XAUTHORITY KDE_SESSION_VERSION=5 KDE_FULL_SESSION=true dolphin

right?

I used that command as well as:

pkexec env DISPLAY=$DISPLAY XAUTHORITY=$XAUTHORITY KDE_SESSION_VERSION=5 KDE_FULL_SESSION=true dolphin $HOME

[Don B. Cilly]

Aw, come on. Show me

I mean, paste that in Konsole, type the password, and paste the output here.
It's not as if I don't believe you, I just want to see it

Still, I'm checking out Cinnamon.
On the plus side, it's simple and it works.
On the down one... not sure whether it's a whingy-whiner or a whiny-whinger... but it does whine and whinge a lot.
And of course, if we keep up the motorcycle simile, if Kubuntu 18 is the Ducati 916, Ubuntu 19 is the little scooter, Mint 19 Cinnamon is... a KTM Duke 125 at best.

[WWDERW]

Aw, come on. Show me

I mean, paste that in Konsole, type the password, and paste the output here.
It's not as if I don't believe you, I just want to see it

Ask and ye shall receive.

On the down one... not sure whether it's a whingy-whiner or a whiny-whinger... but it does whine and whinge a lot.
And of course, if we keep up the motorcycle simile, if Kubuntu 18 is the Ducati 916, Ubuntu 19 is the little scooter, Mint 19 Cinnamon is... a KTM Duke 125 at best.

Neither one of those statements mean a whole lot to me. Not much of a motorcycle person. While I have heard of Ducati (only by way of Tron), I don't know what KTM is at all. Not without googling.

EDIT to Add:

I did use both commands in konsole in one of my KDE Neon installs and it did work. Now, if I recall Neon and Kubuntu both of have same base. I don't recall a min install option with Neon as it's mainly to highlight KDE apps. I was under the impression that the min install with *buntu based flavors (that offer that) is that it was mainly to strip away the excess programs that were bundled. Are there other services or something else that would impact what I'm dealing with here? I really don't want to do the full install of Kubuntu as that is a lot of debloating I would have to do, but I thought I would spit ball that idea. I just don't know what other ancillary "stuff" that is also stripped away on a min install.

That's the only thing that I can think of, because I just cannot see myself fubarring every fresh install of Kubuntu and yet Mint works without fail every time. If I'm ruining the install of one every time, it should fallow that I'm ruining the other as well.

Thoughts?

[Don B. Cilly]

Hmm...
OK, it's off-topic. So what, nobody reads it anyway
But I can't help being curious, can I.

It's got to be...
Can you post the output of

dolphin --version

and

inxi -c 0 -Sx

?

I'm sure there are more knowledgeable people here who know the solution, but they're not reading this...

[WWDERW]

Hmm...
OK, it's off-topic. So what, nobody reads it anyway
But I can't help being curious, can I.

It's not too off topic really. This was born out of KDE v. Gnome. Some issues with KDE that aren't apparent in Gnome, or I should say the Cinnamon variant.

It's got to be...
Can you post the output of

dolphin --version

dolphin 17.12.3

and

inxi -c 0 -Sx

?

System: Host: kubuntu Kernel: 5.0.0-23-generic x86_64 bits: 64 gcc: 7.4.0
Desktop: KDE Plasma 5.12.8 (Qt 5.9.5) Distro: Ubuntu 18.04.3 LTS

[Don B. Cilly]

So. From what I read, you need at least Dolphin 18.10+ to be able to run it as root.
On my neon I have 19.11.70, which is probably why it works.
Your Plasma version should be good enough.

Thing is, from what I read, upgrading Dolphin either involves replacing your current libkdeinit5_dolphin.so with a newer one, or getting it as a flatpak.
Personally, I would do neither.
I would just use another file manager in the rare instances I'd need root GUI file management. Krusader is probably better suited for that sort of job to start with, being dual-panel and all, and designed to be used as root if necessary..

Still, I guess this "solves the mystery", if not the problem, which isn't a real one.

[WWDERW]

So. From what I read, you need at least Dolphin 18.10+ to be able to run it as root.
On my neon I have 19.11.70, which is probably why it works.
Your Plasma version should be good enough.

That would explain that. Oh the joys of being on an LTS.

Thanks for the help with this.

Thing is, from what I read, upgrading Dolphin either involves replacing your current libkdeinit5_dolphin.so with a newer one, or getting it as a flatpak.
Personally, I would do neither.
I would just use another file manager in the rare instances I'd need root GUI file management. Krusader is probably better suited for that sort of job to start with, being dual-panel and all, and designed to be used as root if necessary..

I wouldn't do that as well.

I have with the previous installs of Kubuntu 18.04 (remember, I weekly flip flopped between Kubuntu and MInt due to this and how the Cintiq handles (ironically they are on the same base)) actually replaced Dolpin with Krusader, PCMANFM-QT and Nautilus. Nautilus was the first one that I tried and that wouldn't let me run in as root. It actually gave me the same error.

Krusader and PCMAN, did allow for root, but their interaction with Ark was sub par. I lost some functionality, in particular, I always had to compress and decompress in the same folder as the archive that I was working with. I couldn't just drag and drop to where I wanted (which I could do with dolphin). As such, it would extract the entire folder hierarchy of what was in the archive. Something that I didn't want to happen either. The folder hierarchy was more for the archive then it was for the actually finished uncompressed form of the files.

I'm actually not a fan of the dual pane of Krusader. I'm probably the outlier there, but I actually don't like it. I'm sure that's how I use computers and it's probably a more efficient file manager and I'm just not an efficient user, but I just don't like that aspect of it.

What I would probably do is wait until Kubuntu 19.10 comes out next month and use that until the next LTS comes out in April. 19.10 should be supported long enough to wait for the LTS. I would go with 19.04, but I think support stops in Jan. I know it won't stop working past January, I know EOL doesn't mean that (I still run a VM of Win 98 after all), I still like the idea if I want to do patches I can.

This would also give me the ability to use the GUI frontend to the tablet driver, something that is far superior then the Gnome version and actually more on par with the Windows/Mac "official" versions (which is why I've bash scripted all my express key macros to being with was due to the Gnome version). Something that isn't on the version of Kubuntu that I'm on now.

Still, I guess this "solves the mystery", if not the problem, which isn't a real one.

I think on if it's a real problem or not depends on if it effects you are not.

I think that's in general the case with everything.

Thanks again for the help, I really do appreciate it.

[GreyGeek]

...
Look again at how dead simple that desktop file is. I'd never made one before today, and I can't program much at all.
...

You remind me of a classmate in the University I attended.

A test in Physics was coming up. I saw him on the steps of the science building plucking at a Guitar, teaching himself how to play. I asked him if he was ready for the test. "What test?" I reminded him. He asked if he could borrow my text book, and I loaned it to him. I went up to the class and studied my notes for an hour before the test. When the test results came back I had a 95%. He had a 98%. I knew he was brilliant. He just proved how much. He graduated in 1965 with a BS and went on to earn a PhD in Physics and came back to that university in 1969 as a professor and eventually became head of the department. I earned an MS in science in 1968 was invited back to teach at the college I got my undergraduate degree from.

I lasted 18 years in academia before leaving to start my own company. He lasted 12 years before doing the same, for the same reason: poor salaries.