Clean install versus upgrading

[chimak111]

Some points:

• Have you backed up your personal data?
• Are you experienced in trouble-shooting?
• Are you moving from one LTS to another?
• Have you kept a record of tweaks you've made to the existing system?
• Have you uninstalled ppas and the software they installed?
• Have you installed non-standard kernels on your existing system?
• Did your existing system require drivers not included by default?
• Do you have another machine handy with which you can ask for help?
• Have you tested the new version extensively using a Live USB?

[jglen490]

While I'm pretty sure it is NOT impossible to upgrade to an LTS, recent experiences of others show that upgrading from one LTS to another LTS seems to be generally problematic. In my opinion, since backing up personal data is always wise before doing any distro upgrade, it's simply easier to go the clean route for LTS to LTS. I avoid the interim non-LTS upgrades, so I can't speak on how well those upgrades work.

[GreyGeek]

It should be pasted on the front page that doing an LTS upgrade is at best problematic and at worst disastrous.
The two posts above outline the situation perfectly.
It is far easier AND TAKES MUCH LESS TIME to backup one's data, which should be done before ANY upgrade anyway, and do a FRESH install from a check summed ISO and check summed LiveUSB, than to putz around for hours and days trying to recover from a failed upgrade.

[jglen490]

Well said, GG!!

I second that motion ...

[claydoh]

I would want to see actual numbers of those who have had successes and those who have not. A couple of people having an issue is not enough to say that it is not a recommended thing.

It should be reinforced to have backups, etc.

We should also support Kubuntu by promoting upgrade testing, pointing people to the actual testing site, and being an actual part of the community for once, instead of going our own way all the time, with no bugs or feedback going back to devs who will (mostly) not be found in web forums.
(and yes, I know I am part of this problem. I used to do a lot of this, writing some docs/wiki pages, blogging, formal testing, running a PPA, taking part in the actual Kubuntu community: irc, mailing lists, reddit, etc and not just hanging out here in our own little world. I can't anymore, not enough.)


Enough of me whining, back to the topic

Have you backed up your personal data - I copy my files, as well as having a separate /home dir, on top of normal backup regimen (syncthing plus onliune s.

Are you experienced in trouble-shooting? Long time, since 2005. I had a hard drive that was upgraded every 6 months, from Raring through Yakkety, and used in two machines. It was a HTPC/Desktop setup originally, with many desktop customizations.

Are you moving from one LTS to another? Never, though in the past I have created installs, and set them up as usual, just for testing LTS to LTS upgrades.

Have you kept a record of tweaks you've made to the existing system? Nope. Nothing I can't redo without them, plus I may have browser bookmarks for things I don't --but very often things change under the hood, especially with 2 years' worth of updated software, so the old way is not always the right way, which renders the old info a bit useless. Plus a separate /home preserves whatever is preservable for user settings, so only system-level tweaks are needed, if any. These are preserved during the upgrade process, and I believe it will pop up a window if a new config (say for Samba server or something) is part of the upgrade, and will ask if you want to keep, replace, or view the differences.

Have you uninstalled ppas and the software they installed? Nope. PPAs are disabled when upgrading. It is suggested to revert back nfrom Nvidia back to the open driver before upgrading, but I don't think I ever have, and I have *always* used the driver ppa, except for that one time I had a Radeon card. So I used a different one

Have you installed non-standard kernels on your existing system?Only for testing, and long ago. The seldom have anything useful for most, and the Nvidia drivers are almost always not usable with them, without building them yourself (a rather PITA task)

Have you tested the new version extensively using a Live USB? No, I give it a quick run before installing it. Maybe mess around while it is installing. I used to run only pre-releases of Kubuntu on my daily-driver laptop, with my PC running the OS as normal. Having a separate /home is a time saver in this case as reinstalls are the norm.

Did your existing system require drivers not included by default? None of mine do, though my Chromebook needs various hardware specific tweaks, as these devices have most of the components all on the chio with the cpu, so the need some platform-specific specific kernel/sound tweaks on some models. GalliumOS provide those for me

Do you have another machine handy with which you can ask for help? A PC, Laptop, and chromebook, as well as my phone.

Have you tested the new version extensively using a Live USB?
Nope. I make sure everything works hardware wise, then I just go to town.

I do admit from the outside it appears that I am reckless, but I can recover my system from scratch in minimal time after the OS is installed. I don't run pre-release stuff anymore (no time for play) but when I got my new laptop last spring, it took me literally much less than 30 minutes to have it set up exactly like my old laptop. I copy my documents over, change the theme, set the wallpaper, install the minimum tools I need for work (browser and Libreoffice) , create some folder links, set up syncthing, add some widgets then go about life. I only install software when I need it (I don't have gimp on this laptop, since I haven't used it there, for example) I create my Activities as I need them, and add widgets as I feel the need or desire. Eventually I may copy my application configs from the backup as I feel I need them, but I don't. I have the docs, I don't need each program's settings, myself.

I am the exact opposite of the sort of person who makes clonezilla copies, and uses a formal, specialized backup tool. I have copies of all the truly important stuff in so many places I do not overly worry about data. Everything else is replaceable.

[Rod J]

I'm probably the complete opposite of claydoh!

I generally only use the LTS versions, although occasionally try the non-LTS versions in a test partition when something special happens, like the change to Plasma 5. I've never even attempted a dist-upgrade and always do clean installs. It's a hassle though. I installed 18.04 about three months ago on a second partition on my SSD and I'm still sorting things out. I keep finding things I haven't gotten around to setting up. I customise my install heaps.

Have you backed up your personal data?
Yeah, I hate to lose stuff so I have several backup strategies in place. I backup my system using TimeShift and my data using BackInTime.

Are you experienced in trouble-shooting?
Somewhat, but I'm no expert. I'm not afraid of the terminal as I'm an old DOS user but I still like to use the gui most of the time. I can script but don't do enough of it to get really good at it (especially as I get older ... I'm now a pensioner ).

Are you moving from one LTS to another?
Yeah, that's me alright.

Have you kept a record of tweaks you've made to the existing system?
No, because moving from one LTS to the next most of the tweaks don't carry over so well. Like, in 14.04 I used a nice window decoration which isn't available in Plasma 5.

Have you uninstalled ppas and the software they installed?
No, never had to (clean installs).

Have you installed non-standard kernels on your existing system?
No, never. That sounds way too 'bleeding edge' for me!

Did your existing system require drivers not included by default?
Yes, a better keyboard driver for my Logitech G510 gaming keyboard. Although the keyboard driver installed by default makes basic things work (keyboard keys work, key back-lighting is bright white) I can't change the colour of the back-lighting and the macro keys are useless. An Arch user developed a driver for this keyboard which I compiled and had working quite well in K14.04 but I've still to get around to doing this in K18.04.

Do you have another machine handy with which you can ask for help?
Yeah. My main PC is a Core-i5 desktop but I also have an old HP EliteBook laptop (see my sig).

Have you tested the new version extensively using a Live USB?
Yes, I usually test the Live USB for at least a day. I temporarily install some stuff that I know I want on every install and test the stability of the new system. Sometimes, I'll create a Virtualbox virtual machine instead, although that doesn't always work so well, like the Plasma 5 effects didn't work so well and kept crashing on the virtual machine but were fine on bare metal.

[bsniadajewski]

I've gone either way when it comes to upgrading to a new release. like others, I also keep a separate /home partition (on a separate drive, no less) to preserve settings and data in case I do clean-install. Now with the option to have a "minimal" install from the live installer on all(?) Ubuntu variants to biuld up what applications you do want.

[Qqmike]

I'm probably the complete opposite of Rod J, who is the complete opposite of claydoh.

I wrote up my experience installing 18.04.1, calling it "cowboy style":
Took the plunge
https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showth...ook-the-plunge
That upgrade bordered on being downright impulsive.

Always a clean, from-scratch, new installation (never an upgrade). My philosophy is that doing a clean install keeps you sharp, up to date, on your toes, and in practice doing all the proper things one should do when downloading and installing a new Kubuntu OS (checksums, burning a live DVD/USB, partitioning, using the installer, dealing with booting, and so on).

As for backups, I drag anything important to a flash drive (and to backup, duplicate flash drives periodically). And I've reduced the size of my backups by reducing the size of the all the stuff I wish to actually keep. It comes to only 556.2 MB currently, and that includes several manuals on hardware (PC, tablet, cell phone, etc.), and key document scans, and I could probably pare that down to 200-300 MB if pressed to do so. It does not include family photos; even photos can be minimal: take 100 photos while on an outing, come home, review them, and get rid of 50%-80% of them as being low quality, or duplicates, or not relevant.

Keeping life simple ...

[vinnywright]

OK ,,, I'll bite

Oooo this is going to take me all night !

I for one do not have a set plan for this "clean install/Upgrade thing" I do EVERYTHING like this as the whim takes me .
I do find that if your going to do the "do-release-upgrade" thing you should follow the path , that's to say do not skip a release , do not try to go LTS to LTS , it's to far a jump and to much will have changed (is possible , yes , is it probable ,no) .
just think from 16.04 to 18.04 their was also 16.10,17.04,17.10 that's a lot in linux and development .
now the system I am typing from right now IS a "do-release-upgrade" that followed the path from 17.04 to 17.10 to 18.04 and it seams to have worked well .
BUT it was never overly customized , no long list of PPA's (some) no custom kernels , just look and feel type changes.
AND it's on a BTRFS file system so with snapshots it was not a concern I could always role back to where I was before the upgrade.

I have 5 OS's on this box
Kubuntu-14.04 on ext4
Kubuntu-18.04 on BTRFS started as 17.04
Neon-LTS on BTRFS(same filesystem as 18.04)
Kubuntu/Neon-16.04 mix on ext4
Debian-8 KDE on ext4

and a 1TB storage drive (BTRFS) that contains all my personal data that all the OS's /home/vinny system link to , so no mater what system I am in all my documents,downloads,music,videos,bla,bla,bla is accessible.

so on to the list

Have you backed up your personal data?
no it's all on the storage drive .

Are you experienced in trouble-shooting?
some what , I'v been doing this a wile

Are you moving from one LTS to another?
not usually and if so it would be a clean install , but I have been meaning to redo the 14.04 install , just for s41t's and giggles I might do the "do-release-upgrade" on it LOL , it will fail their is no doubt , it's to big a jump and it's to customized , so when it dose it's getting kali ,,,or maybe the Debian install ,,,,,aaa the whim hasn't taken me yet .

Have you kept a record of tweaks you've made to the existing system?
no , like i said i let the whim take me , no 2 of my systems are exactly the same .

Have you uninstalled ppas and the software they installed?
no the upgrader will take care of that , IF their not to extensive.

Have you installed non-standard kernels on your existing system?
no the farthest I go with that is the HWE-LTS kernel package , but that's standard ,,,isn't it?

Did your existing system require drivers not included by default?
no , not require , but I do add the Nvidia ones.

Do you have another machine handy with which you can ask for help?
yes , or just boot to one of the other systems on the box.

Have you tested the new version extensively using a Live USB?
not extensively , just to see if it will boot and I can open ,Dolphin,konsol,firefox,log the wireless and play for a min and then I go for it.



VINNY