All-Snap Ubuntu 24.04

[Montmorency]

https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/05/...ubuntu-desktop

Do you guys think this is the beginning of the end for Ubuntu .deb?

[claydoh]

No?
Does it matter in the very long term?

They kinda need to "compete" with Red Hat and Suse, and their all-flatpak testbeds, among other 'immutable' systems. That term is a bit of a misnomer.

Silverblue, Aeon, Vanilla OS are already ahead of the curve.

If this sort of a system ends up being the direction things go (and it is far from that atm), Ubuntu won't be the first one to do so.

[rec9140]

https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/05/...ubuntu-desktop

Do you guys think this is the beginning of the end for Ubuntu .deb?

At this point Thats up for debate on the demise of *buntus...

I personally find this move right up there with loading the shotgun, putting to your head and pulling the trigger.

No?
Does it matter in the very long term?

YES! It matters in the long term and the short term.

I, my personal clients, and my WORK, will not, I will say that louder for Canocial in back, WILL NOT BE USING THIS mess! Period. Full stop.

I/we already desnapify, and that ain't changing, full stop.

I/we already will not be moving beyond X11. We use X11 forwarding, XDMCP, EXTENSIVELY. 99.999% of the setups in my immediate office are LTS setups, have been for years. We are not changing that configuration. And no VNC, RDP, NX etc. are not solutions for me/us. Full stop.

They kinda need to "compete" with Red Hat and Suse, and their all-flatpak testbeds,

Whats that saying, if every body else jumped off a bridge would you too? Just cause others are doing something, doesn't make it correct.

You want to "test/play" with this mess, go right ahead, play with your toys.. Leave the rest of us alone! Oh and take your snap toy back! Puhlease! Go play with the other solutions for no problems on the Island of Misfit Solutions...

among other 'immutable' systems. That term is a bit of a misnomer.

This is the buzzword du jour/heure/mois.... And is another. No thanks. Full stop. This one rates right up their with my disdain for the use of "lag" by certain users and the use of it spreading to some others who have no clue about it, in both cases. I hear that word, and its my immediate clue to just ignore them.

I've heard all this about the alleged reasons, "cause security..." And no... Even on things that we have that match up with the buzzword salads that try to con people on this, its still a absolutely NO THANK YOU! Ever!

Silverblue, Aeon, Vanilla OS are already ahead of the curve.

Again, that saying.. if Billy jumped off the cliff..... Honestly I could care less, especially about what RH (IBM) etc. are doing, matter of fact if RH is doing it.. thats a good enough reason to RUN, Forrest RUN AWAY!

If this sort of a system ends up being the direction things go (and it is far from that atm), Ubuntu won't be the first one to do so.

Here is the chance for Canoncial to step up, and stay the course as it were... let everyone else go left! And ignore that big sign that says Bridge Out! Do NOT ENTER! No I am not betting the house on that, or holding my breath, because if anything history shows they just can't grasp this... cough snaps cough unity cough.....

This needs to be SQUASHED to DEATH NOW! NOW NOW! NOW! Before it gets any traction.

And the $64B question is... Will Kubuntu follow this mess for 24.04? I'd like to know so that I know I need to start planning to use 23.10 as the next ESR errrrr or is it the FR?

[claydoh]

24.04 Ubuntu is offering a separate release, not switching. Same as Fedora and Suse have been doing. Ubuntu Core has actually been around for almost a decade, btw.

It is far too early to chicken-litte things just yet.

But if Ubuntu moved to this exclusively for some reason, of course Kubuntu will. It's not a separate distro.

And you want to kill off things that will have a good possibility of improving things for a lot of people and organizations just because *YOU* don't like it?

[rec9140]

24.04 Ubuntu is offering a separate release, not switching.

That is not how any of those articles read to me... they are REPLACING THE NORMAL ESR with this crud.

Same as Fedora and Suse have been doing.

I do not care what those RPM and RH based things do. They can screw up their distros all they want.

Ubuntu Core has actually been around for almost a decade, btw.

Doesn't make it a better solution just because its been around a decade or more or less.

It is far too early to chicken-litte things just yet.

It actually MAY BE TOO LATE!

https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/05/...p-ubuntu-23-10

If I can't remove this abomination and return to a PURE DEB BASED CUPS, then 23.04 just became the FR.

But if Ubuntu moved to this exclusively for some reason, of course Kubuntu will. It's not a separate distro.

Which I am well aware of and why its time to ring the alarm bell! Or has been for a while! If Kubuntu is not willing to put in the effort to UNWIND these things to correct the distro then there are problems.

I've already been on the look out for a DEB based non snapable,non buzzwordmatble no BSry distro to move to... with KDE.

And you want to kill off things that will have a good possibility of improving things for a lot of people and organizations

How is this an improvement? HOLD IT.. I've read your other stuff and you may be on team snapd, I am not...

First, I will and have for DECADES stated that packaging in Linux is and STILL IS one of the biggest issues that face Linux adoption. This alone is my I have a vehemently mean dislike of all things RH and RPM!

Second, snaps, flatpak lets start by stating and ruling them out! They are SOLUTIONS that are not the solution to this issue, most especially snaps

Third, appimage ala Balera Etcher is nice and all, but I am not sure that is the solution either.. While I like it above the other two at this time..and will take it for software over snaps and flatpak.

Lastly, the premier packaging solution is right here.. its been around for decades. its called a DEB.

Hold... I can hear those keys clicking and smell the smoke......

No it is NOT PERFECT EITHER... But as the line and reoccuring thing of a movie, FIX THE PROBLEM...

Creating a DEB is some sort of black art, and developers rightfully have a reason(s) to squabble about that.. FIX IT!

Just as X11 needs to have an update to X12 Any project/software thats ran for what 30 years?!!?! Yes theres some other dramady in there too... Needs to have updates, refactoring! That doesn't mean throw it out! I will tell you flat out wayland is not that solution! When you abjectly decide that one of the key components of how X11 works is thrown out... you are already on the wrong path.

Again, fix the problem.

So either CREATE OR FIX THE DEB CREATION tools so that mere developers can use them to create and package their software! All the time put into snaps and flatpak could have solved this already... ok maybe not flatpak since that more for the RH/RPM side of the fence as it were... but all this effort in coding etc. for snaps could have come up with tools to tackle all the issues of DEB's... And its seems that several places are doing automation of packaging for things from source to DEB ie: GitHub, OpenSUSE project hosting thingy... so maybe there is work out there that could be merged into make DEB EVEN MORE PREMIER than they already are. All of those tackle one of the things I am sure you will post that it does it over wide ranges of release.. So does GitHub and the OSE thingy.. I know of projects which create DEBS for everything from 18.04 to Raspbian to ARMbuntu etc..so thats not an issue.

Fix the fools to create the DEBS ala like snaps then the problems go away..

The YET ANOTHER PACKAGING FORMAT is not, AGAIN, NOT THE SOLUTION. Look around at this mess.. all the uproar over it.. yet you could've fixed DEB packaging tools and every one would be happy. Developers get the tools they need to create DEB's with out some Black Arts Degree, users get simple easy to use installs. Seems like a win win to me!

So I don't really see any of this snaps or immutable (buzzword bonus points! ) being all that much of an improvement.

just because *YOU* don't like it?

At this TIME, YES! I am sick and tired of taking it for the team on MY FEATURES XDMCP for one example... having pulseaudio shoved down my throat, systemd again shoved down my throat (No do not even mention devuan, garbage) etc... Its time YOUR FEATURES are neutered, disabled, hobbled, etc.. I am tired of cleaning up my features to work, accepting things like systemd that are heinous infestations to the Linux community....

This is a major seismic change in the Linux world, and one I am not onboard with.

So CODE RED! RED ALERT! ! WHOOOT WHOOOT WHOOOT! We got problems right here in River City! WHOOT WHOOT RED ALERT!

[oshunluvr]

So what does this mean in your world

An all-snap Ubuntu desktop is coming — and sooner than you might think!

According to Canonical’s Oliver Grawert, the next long-term support release of Ubuntu will be available to download in 2 versions: a classic, deb-based version (default) and, for the first time, an immutable, snap-based build for enthusiasts to experiment with.

[Snowhog]

I think it’s time to just say “We agree to disagree.” Nothing productive is coming from this.

[claydoh]

Aw, man, ya stop me from being that knee-jerk contrarian that I tend to be lol.
Probably a good idea.

[Schwarzer Kater]

Whatever may happen - you can always switch to Debian, if you want to keep using the .deb format and *Ubuntu does not satisfy your needs anymore…

If you really want to be flexible and have a system without "unnecessary" stuff, install a minimal CLI-only Debian and add kde-plasma-desktop and plasma-nm afterwards (don't forget to edit /etc/network/interfaces, though).
Be prepared that you will have to install many of the different Plasma components one by one if you need them, e.g. plasma-wallpapers-addons or plasma-widgets-addons.

[claydoh]

Back in the day, just having packages with dependency resolution was seen by some as bloat and going too far. Slackware still exists for those folks I don't see 'classic' distros going anywhere. The container-ish systems are more for large deployments and mass-management, as opposed to pure security and stability aspects.

[Beerislife]

Now that I have a spare laptop to play with, I may install EndeavourOS KDE on it and see if I can get used to it.

I doubt the next version of Neon will not use Snap so I'm OK for a few more years! 🤣🤣🤣

[Schwarzer Kater]

I you are willing to put in the work, Arch can be a very nice system (EndeavourOS is just Arch with a GUI installer and some goodies) - nothing I would ever use in a production environment, of course.
I don't like pacman, though.