Why isn't minimum wage linked to inflation like salaries are?

[Snowhog]

The ‘working income penalty while drawing Social Security Benefits’ ends when you reach full retirement age, as defined by Social Security. At that point, one can earn as much as they want without any reduction of their Social Security Benefits.

[TWPonKubuntu]

Interesting that there is continued talk about raising the "full retirement age"... Guess not enough of us are dying soon enough to match the SS budget...

For those that need to know; "Full retirement age" is currently 66 years of age (in 2017). I'm older than that now, but I got whacked when I was still 65 y/o. Frankly, I not sure I can still negotiate the kind of contracts which I used to get. I've not kept up with some of the software and some of it not longer even exists in the market. Can you say obsolescence?

Maybe I should hire out as a 'bot? Nah, I can't work those hours either.

Don't get old, it isn't worth it.

[Qqmike]

I wonder how significant the "underground" economy is now--I believe that's the terms used to describe people working on the side, under the table? I do see a lot of it, like a retired mechanic who discreetly takes on one or two cars a month; or a retired plumber who picks up $50-$200 now and then doing home repairs; a woodworker who makes a few pieces of furniture here and there; and so on. Can they be blamed? What's the alternative--to starve or go without dental/medical care? Of course, if you are doing independent consulting work, well, that's another issue, one that comes with a W-9 Btw, on dental care, it is necessary as you age (and throughout life). I know of a few cases where the husband makes $1000 on soc sec, the wife, who didn't work much, makes $500, but their monthly dental bills just about eat up the wife's 500 bucks at times!

[TWPonKubuntu]

I find the "underground" economy interesting... I don't have much contact with but I'm not opposed to it either.

Where I live, there is a large population of "undocumented" day labor workers, mostly in the lawn and garden maintenance jobs. These are very obvious in several placed in town, with clusters of one or two people every 50 feet along a couple of roads, waiting to be picked up for day labor. It does exist. Also interestingly, the local police and government seem to ignore this.

As for more lucrative kinds of work, I have to assume that these jobs are also available, but with hiring done in a less obvious fashion.

Re dental expenses... You must have teeth to have dental expenses. Mine deserted ship some time back... Some things are not missed as much as others.

Let's not talk about the cost of dentures today. 5 years ago, I was quoted $2500 for a full set of dentures and I walked away shaking my head. I'd don't want to know current prices.

At least we don't yet have California's minimum wage... yet.

[oshunluvr]

While I agree in general with some of the comments about Social Security, like if you are relying on that for your retirement don't complain when you're poor later in life, much of what comes out of the elected liars in DC is - as expected - totally untrue. Social Security (and I believe Medicare) are paid by worker's wages and add ZERO to the deficit. I believe there was a short period when the employer contribution was reduced to help the economic recovery that added to the deficit for a short time. However, congress has "borrowed" $2.8 TRILLION from the Soc. Sec. Trust fund and they don't want to pay it back.

I''m not sure what the original intention of Social Security was (retirement or just supplement), but it was NEVER intended to be a tool that congress uses to offset unfunded spending (aka the deficit) nor to be used as a political football. Social Security (and again - I believe Medicare) were designed as a cushion so older Americans wouldn't have to literally work themselves to death. If Social Security and/or Medicare need additional funding, it doesn't come from general fund tax dollars. It comes from raising the cap on the payroll taxes which this year was $127,200. The reason it was designed this way was to prevent what congress is doing now - pretending Social Security is to blame for their unwillingness to balance a budget. They want to kill Social Security so they can use the cash to pay for tax breaks for the wealthy and so their business buddies can add the employers portion of the contribution back to their bottom line to justify the astronomical salaries they pay themselves. I'm sure all those congresspeople will reap the benefits in "contributions" from those wealthy corporations.

BTW, the "trickle-down" theory is voodoo economics and has proven to never work. Giving corporations and the wealthy tax breaks does exactly what it sounds like - enriches the corporations and the wealthy. If you want to help the economy, giving money to those that will spend it will always produce way more economic growth than the other way around. You really only need common sense to see it - one guy with a billion dollars buys one house (OK, maybe 2 or 3), but 5000 people with $200,000 each buy 5000 houses. Which effects the economy more? Or 5000 vacations, or 5000 new cars? A simplistic illustration, but I think the point holds. When you consider that a rising tide lifts all boats, it makes more sense to pour into the bottom and then everyone (or at least a greater number) benefits. It makes way more sense to raise minimum wage than to lower taxes on the upper earners.

I personally have no problem with the concept of helping older folks have a little bit (and believe me, no one is getting rich on SSI) easier life nor do I consider it over-burdensome to pay the payroll taxes associated with this cost. I would have no heart burn if the doubled the cap or even eliminated it for the individual. I do have heart burn over elderly folks eating cat food or vets sleeping on the street. Does anyone else recall that the Reagan administration decided that mental illness was no longer a disability and therefore didn't qualify for SSI or Medicare any longer? One third of our homeless and half of our jailed citizens are mentally ill.

Funny too, how we're often told that we pay the highest taxes, but we don't. Considering average incomes (from Investopedia) , America is 16th for single tax payers and 21st for single-income married taxpayers with 2 kids. It probably could be much less if we'd stop fighting wars we can't win and shouldn't be in. I do find it wildly ironic when lower income people support policies and politicians that keep them right where they are. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

As far as the "working penalty" for Soc. Sec. recipients, one could argue either side. IMO, if it's not a retirement fund but a supplement, then you don't need as much of a supplement because you're working. If it's a retirement, then you're not retired if you're working. Besides, you're not required to apply for your benefits at all until you want to. So if you're working, why apply for SSI? If you wait, you collect a higher amount.

Anyway, good conversation and some interesting viewpoints. May we all have a better year next year!

[GreyGeek]

Well, I got my SS notice of increase. After increased health insurance deductions it amounts to $11. My wife’s SS, which is 1/3rd mine, got a. $40 increase. So, just like every year, deductions wipe out increases. Without annuities we’d be hurting.


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[Qqmike]

Well, I'll be gotoh&ll. I was thinking about posting a complaint-observation, but GG beat me to it. It's the principle that counts here. I also thought it was nice of my gov't to cough up the 2%. I got my annual Soc Sec notice in the mail today, and I'll be damned ... After the 2% increase in SS, I net just $6/month after the increase in Medicare premiums (from $109 to $134/month). "They" sure figured it out!
https://money.usnews.com/money/retir...tirees-in-2018
And a friend who makes just $900/month in soc sec, gets the 2% = $18/month increase, and does NOT have to pay the Medicare premium increase because of that law cited in the link (i.e., he would go negative). No annuities here, just ingenuity ... so far, anyway. Been exercising ingenuity since age 16 (actually since 12), and I suppose I can continue until I can't. (IRAs, 401-k's? Yeah, I know what they are, have cashed several getting through two divorces and keeping self-employment funded through the years. However, an ace-in-the-hole prevails: Having a philosophical perspective, combined with a sense of hustling, is worth its weight in gold.)

(Forum formatting goof: This is the second post in a week where a line-spacing was inserted that was not wanted (between ... I can't. and (IRAs, ...); and I can't seem to remove it.)

[mastablasta]

This question has occurred to me on more than one occasion and recently. I feel we have a rather wide spectrum of individuals here, so why not ask it here?

It does here (Slovenia) and i am sure in many other EU countries. they also check for price increase in certain items as well as salary movements. but we have only minimum salary. only students have osmething similar as you have wages and they, for a few years now, can get only limited number of hours per year.

that doesn't help it much. same as others noted here happens as well. in the end you are not really any better off.

we have another issue - the minimum was supposed to be a rare occurence, but many people have it. the issue is that if you have a familly of 4 (2A+2K) working with both addults gettign minimum salary, they get onyl abotu 100 EUR more than if neither of adults was working. if you have a family of 5 (2A+3kids) you get more money by not working for minimum salary. quite problematic.

oh and if we look at average monthly salary the immediate taxes from salary are about 30%. so to get 1000 EUR net employer has to pay you about 1500 EUR (gross). then at the end of the year they check all your incomes and if you had more they would additionally tax you.

things like child nursery are payed based on your income and based on your property. same goes for lunch in school. i am the sole "bread maker" with relatively low salary. so we have free school lunch and pay the lowest possible amount for nursery. additionally we get fund for children each month. so this makes it as if all these services are for free.

we also have free health care.

not sure really how long this whole system will still last. they manage to patch it up somehow every year. we were really close to default in 2010, but came through with some belt tightening in the country.

oh and at my company we do work overtime but usually do not get paid for that. we do get to use the extra time we worked on another day. so i can work 1h longer today and come in one hour late tomorrow. sometimes we do get paid for overtime with a bonus. for example we had an emergency situation with our overseas partners. due to time difference we worked in afternoon and even a bit during the night. after successful resolution. we got free hours+a bit of bonus. these things are rare at my company.

It's even worse here in NC where a waitress makes $2.13 an hour because employers are allowed to factor tips into their salaries. Despicable. That means I am paying the workers' salaries while their bosses collect the profits. One restaurant I know of in New York (with the same $2.13 rule) pays it's staff salaries and benefits and doesn’t permit them to receive tips. Apparently, if you leave a tip there, the restaurant keeps it, not the employee. AFAIK, the USA is the only country where the customers are required to pay the salaries of restaurant employees.

here we rarely tip. it would have to be an extraordinary service for us to tip. in some countries they consider it kind of rude and maybe condescending. while in others they would kindly remind you ("perhaps something for the kids?!", "maybe you could add a bit for some water, i am really thirsty")

[GreyGeek]

well, for your reading pleasure is the information about 30 million who pay no taxes but got $89 Billion in "refunds" (read: negative income taxes, i.e., welfare).
https://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/t...6-billion-back

IRS info is here:

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/15inalcr.pdf
page 151

[whatthefunk]

well, for your reading pleasure is the information about 30 million who pay no taxes but got $89 Billion in "refunds" (read: negative income taxes, i.e., welfare).
https://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/t...6-billion-back

IRS info is here:

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/15inalcr.pdf
page 151

Yes, they are called Earned Income Tax Credits. They are a way to help lower income people out. Its kind of important when you have a society in which a full time worker can easily fall below the poverty line.

[GreyGeek]

Why isn't minimum wage linked to inflation like salaries are?

Yes, they are called Earned Income Tax Credits. They are a way to help lower income people out. Its kind of important when you have a society in which a full time worker can easily fall below the poverty line.

Lower income? Check the number of recipients with incomes over the median income of $47K