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**GreyGeek** · Mar 08, 2017, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by vinnywright View Post

,,,if I'm still awake ,

VINNY

Or, still a live. At that rate you could die of old age!

**oshunluvr** · Mar 09, 2017, 11:24 AM

I booted up an old Win7 VM in Virtual box on Monday. Literally took two days to get through all the updates. TWO DAYS!

This included expanding the virtual hard drive because 25GB wasn't enough space. Umm, there's no software on the VM - none. Just what comes with the OS. No friggin' wonder it's so damn slow. Microsoft has really shoved a pile of crap on the public. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Microsoft is a Marketing company - not a software company. Their products are crap but they know how to sell.

**Snowhog** · Mar 09, 2017, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by oshunluvr View Post

Microsoft is a Marketing company - not a software company. Their products are crap but they know how to sell.

I think they are more like a drug dealer who has gotten people 'hooked' on the drug they are selling. Their customer base are much like addicts who simply can't see themselves quiting (the analogy being switching to Linux).

**vinnywright** · Mar 09, 2017, 03:12 PM

so ,,,after 30+ hours of copying install files to the HD and then installing the files ,,,,,,,,,,,it errors out .

do you want to try again yes/no ,,,,,,,,,,,,<sigh> , yes .

so hear I am ,,,,,,starting over

VINNY

**GreyGeek** · Mar 09, 2017, 07:30 PM

I kept my copy of Win7 in a VM for years but never had a need to run it. Every 3 or 4 months I'd I run it to get the updates. The last one was after about 6 months. Over 100,000 updates came down the pipe. It took several hours and several reboots. That's when I asks why I was punishing myself maintaining an OS that I never used. I deleted it

Wouldn't you know it ... a couple weeks later a former client asked me to make some changes to some software I wrote for him 10 yrs previously. I recovered my old XP VM disk and fired it up in Virtual Box. Or tried to. It wanted me to authenticate again. Couldn't do it. MS deleted the servers it used to do that. So, I went to wine, winetricks and playonlinux. The program installed and ran fine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**dibl** · Mar 10, 2017, 03:51 AM

I backed up my Win 10 VM yesterday and noticed that it is 49 GB in size. I only use it for some specialized genealogy and related website work -- there's not more than 2 GB of actual user data on it. It's kind of mind boggling

**dequire** · Mar 10, 2017, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by vinnywright View Post

I had the restore disks for the HP so I'm thinking I'll give her a new win7 box (she likes it)

last night I started the recovery process with DVD1 of 3 (2 recovery disks and 1 applications) at around 6:00PM when I got up this morning their was still over 200 min left to go ,,,,,,, ? wear at over 12 hours .

this after noon when I got off work it was ready to reboot and actually start installing ,,,,,,,,,we are 2 hours into this faze of the process now and it dose not seam to be in any hurry to complete judging from the progress bars .

I do believe I could have done SEVERAL Linux installs in the time I have been at it to this point ,,,,,,,,and I think I have several Linux installs worth of time to go yet

I'll add a compleat time to this thread when it actualy finishes ,,,,,,,,if I'm still awake ,

VINNY

Pardon my obvious thought process here, but if it were me, I would have shown the wife all the heartache, torment, pain, and befuddlement necessary to install an OS that was just going to end up cludged-up and needing a re-install in a year anyway, assuming it's still supported then and installable...Then told her she had to move to Linux...Maybe LXqT or some other Windows refugee-friendly DE. Neon or Kubuntu, of course, would be 1st choice should the hardware be up to snuff. Just seems easier to me, and I'd be the one supporting it. Having said all that...I'm divorced, so take that FWIW

**GreyGeek** · Mar 10, 2017, 10:44 AM

Well, dequire, some folks just don't want to make the effort to learn a new OS, even if it is little different from the point & click they've used for years in WinX. A couple weeks ago a fellow at church asked me to fix his desktop. He had a $3,000 Bible study program on it, which he could no longer use. When I arrived at his place it turned out to be a WinXP locked up so tight that even a cold boot wouldn't allow a means to break in. The hardware was a 17" color CRT and an old 486 desktop box. He asked how much did I think he could get for it. I told him he'd have to PAY someone to take it, and he'd be better off letting the garbage collectors haul it off.

So, I had a spare low end 17" Acer laptop and asked if he wanted that, with the proviso that I don't do Windows and would install KDE Neon on it. He agreed. I did that, and also found an open source GPL'd Bible study program called "Bible Analyzer" which did everything his $3K program did. It almost had the same look & feel. A few days ago he asked me to help him install a sales tool onto his laptop. It was supplied by his new employer. It was a Windows app. I told him that I doubted that it would run under Linux but he could buy a Windows install CD and I could load up Windows under VirtualBox and he could install it there. He pulled out his wife's laptop (Win10) and said he had already installed the app on it, but couldn't get it to finalize the account setup process he went through. I watched him go through the process, which was detailed very clearly on his employer's website, and could see no problems with what he did, so I suggested he call the company and have a rep walk he through. He did, and she connected remotely to his machine and did the account setup. It required a space between words which was not in the instructions. He called me later and said he was going to install that $3K program into his wife's computer. He was just too familiar with Windows and didn't want to learn Linux. He's 53.

Some old dogs don't want to learn new tricks, even if they aren't as new as they think.

**Snowhog** · Mar 10, 2017, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by GreyGeek View Post

He called me later and said he was going to install that $3K program into his wife's computer. He was just too familiar with Windows and didn't want to learn Linux. He's 53.

Some old dogs don't want to learn new tricks, even if they aren't as new as they think.

And all to often, people equate "free software" with "cheap software". They simply can't grasp that there are people, even companies, who create quality software and make it available for free.

**GreyGeek** · Mar 10, 2017, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by Snowhog View Post

And all to often, people equate "free software" with "cheap software". They simply can't grasp that there are people, even companies, who create quality software and make it available for free.

Suites are really bad about that. In the early 2000's my employer decided to replace FoxPro's database back end with a more powerful one. I suggested PostgreSQL instead of Oracle, which they eventually chose. Their reason: "PostgreSQL didn't offer PAID support". My reply was that there were several excellent PostgreSQL support forums on the web manned by people who use it, but it fell on deaf ears. After Oracle was installed the db admin ran into trouble and submitted a ticket to Oracle, exercising the support they paid for. At the same time they posted their problem on a free Oracle support forum manned by users who didn't like Oracle's support. They got a reply within 30 minutes from the free forum and within the hour their problem was solved. Oracle support replied a couple days later with essentially the same solution. All in all, it was a repeat of my experience with Red Hat's paid support vs free online support from RH users.

PostgreSQL's capabilities follow pretty closely with those of Oracle. While writing in house QT4 software I worked in Linux against PostgreSQL and used compiler defines to switch in Oracle code to do the same thing when the source was compiled on Windows. For more than a decade NE's Dept of Revenue has paid through the taxpayer's nose for Oracle. Somewhere in the neighborhood of several million dollars. Forced upgrade fees were followed by forced per CPU fees, and the prices keep on rising. The support is just as poor, with the admins relying on free support forums because the response is a lot faster and more accurate. Now, just like Cocain, they are hooked on it and can't easily port their data away from it for no other reason than cost.

**vinnywright** · Mar 17, 2017, 05:51 PM

LOL ,,,,,so after 4 attempts at the HP suppled Win7 recovery disks failing to complete the reinstall I installed the Neon-LTS I had on a USB stick .

that installed just fine ,and took only an hour or so ,,,,,,BUT I was experiencing a lag in whatever you would start or do , even just clicking the kickoff menu , in the menus case you would click it the window would start to pop up , you would see a transparent piece of the top start to slide up and stop , the disk activity light on the laptop would burn constant and after about 15-30 seconds the menu would open .

Ksysguard would show 1 of 4 cores on the CPU going 100% but top would not register the fact.

now I installed Gsmartcontrol ran it on the drive and it reports back that it is in good health but reports their were read errors ,,,,,,read errors I think ,,, Humm maby thats what the solid burn of the disk activity light is all about .

Gsmartcontrol had said their were no bad blocks but what the heck ,,,,,,I decided to fire up the live USB and remake the partitions 2 ext4 and 1 swap and run "e2fsck -pckv " on them ,,,, this ran for 2 day's on the larger of the 2 partitions "400+GIB " and Ksysguard said badblocks had gone into "disk sleep" ,,,so I sent it a USR1 signal and it exited gracefully with e2fsck's output and is reporting a few thousand bad blocks (cant remember the exact amount) .

OK so I reinstall to the new made and checked (and hopefully badblock marked in the inode table) partition's and hope for the best,,,,,,but no,,,,,,still the same .

Now I am thinking the hard drive must be on it's last leg ,,,,,a live USB runs just fine but the system on the hard drive has this lag and burn of the disk light .

################################################## ##########################

# SO ,,,,,Opinions 1 and all ,,,,,should I try more ,,,,,just by a new HD (thats where I'm headed now I think) ,,,,,,,,,,or what?? #

################################################## ##########################

VINNY

**Snowhog** · Mar 17, 2017, 06:11 PM

The definition of insanity is 'doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.' HDDs are cheap. Replace the drive!

**GreyGeek** · Mar 17, 2017, 06:38 PM

Earlier this year, or late last year, IFW, I reported a similar lag experience and ran smartdrive against my 625GB HD. It reported a lot of marginal readings.
My fully updated NEON demonstrates the same lag when starting apps or opening menus. Running a LiveDVD I find that the response is faster in many cases. So, I've been looking at an SSD to replace my HD. A 250GB EVO is priced at $99 as Amazon, but with my current usage I'd have only 50GB of free space left on the drive. Going to a 500GB EVO would cost $177. With my budget that puts me between a rock and a hard place. I've backed up all the good stuff in case it all goes south and I'm forced to make a decision.

**vinnywright** · Mar 17, 2017, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by Snowhog View Post

The definition of insanity is 'doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.' HDDs are cheap. Replace the drive!

NOBODY has ever accused me of being sane ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Originally posted by GreyGeek View Post

Earlier this year, or late last year, IFW, I reported a similar lag experience and ran smartdrive against my 625GB HD. It reported a lot of marginal readings.
My fully updated NEON demonstrates the same lag when starting apps or opening menus. Running a LiveDVD I find that the response is faster in many cases. So, I've been looking at an SSD to replace my HD. A 250GB EVO is priced at $99 as Amazon, but with my current usage I'd have only 50GB of free space left on the drive. Going to a 500GB EVO would cost $177. With my budget that puts me between a rock and a hard place. I've backed up all the good stuff in case it all goes south and I'm forced to make a decision.

ya,,,,,,no I cant go the $100.00 route either ,,,,,,,,,I found a 1TB 7000 RPM drive thats the same brand as the 500GIB 7000 RPM that is in it now ,,a WD caviar blue for $45.00 on amazon .

but it wont bee this week ,,,so I'll keep looking ,,,and thinking about it .

VINNY

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