Internet Control

[wizard10000]

...Do we want to someday wake up and find that our business(es) or our religion(s) have been blackballed and can no longer access the 'net?

No, but I'm still open to learning of a reasonably plausible scenario where that happens.

TO ALL: Please accept my thanks for making this thread worth reading. We may agree to disagree, but we still have the ability to DO SO PUBLICLY... for now...

Agreed.

Hear, Hear!

Impressive. That one grinds on me about as much as 'irregardless' does

[GreyGeek]

Snowhog pointed out what makes this forum so unique when compared to many others on the web, which are rapidly reduced to insults and vituperations that remove everyone's ability to have honest and frank discussions. That said, the main topic of this thread was about the future of the Internet, and I'm afraid I took the conversation too far off topic. At least I'm done contributing my thoughts on the future of the Internet. I will be reading others thoughts that topic, however.

[TWPonKubuntu]

No, but I'm still open to learning of a reasonably plausible scenario where that happens.

North Korea, 28 websites

I'm afraid that it will spread.

[GreyGeek]

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/27/angel...ant-posts.html

"

German Chancellor Angela Merkel was overheard confronting Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg over incendiary posts on the social network, Bloomberg reported on Sunday, amid complaints from her government about anti-immigrant posts in the midst of Europe's refugee crisis.

On the sidelines of a United Nations luncheon on Saturday, Merkel was caught on a hot mic pressing Zuckerberg about social media posts about the wave of Syrian refugees entering Germany, the publication reported.

The Facebook CEO was overheard responding that "we need to do some work" on curtailing anti-immigrant posts about the refugee crisis. "Are you working on this?" Merkel asked in English, to which Zuckerberg replied in the affirmative before the transmission was disrupted. "

[GreyGeek]

I mentioned before that the main problem with bypassing censorship on the Internet with Tor, or Blockstack or ZeroNet, supposedly P2P networks, is that they need to existing Internet infrastructure. When we can bypass the cell tower and ISPs hardware and connect with each other the way the Internet was initially intended to be (hundreds of independent ISPs) or an entirely new way, like using radio waves, etc., then we can bypass the Internet.

I wrote the above because an old memory came to me. While I was in college in the 1960s the Marxists at Berkeley were engaging in their "free speech" protests, which eventually led to the take over the campuses which, since then, has spread to most of the big universities in America. The Marxists were using lower power but unregistered transistorized FM transmitters but they needed some way to recipients to respond back to messages. Radio is one way communication. And, FCC tracking vans were able to quickly home in on transmitters and shut them down.

Then, suddenly, the Marxists went quiet. Police no longer heard their FM transmissions but the protests continued to be "spontaneous", well organized and effective. They literally went "underground". They hooked the output of audio amplifiers in the 200 watt range, which normally are attached to speakers, to rods in the earth! At other locations up to five miles away those wanting to hear the transmission merely attached leads from a similar set of ground rods to the input of audio amplifiers. Truly an underground radio. Freedom of speech needs something like that, whether it is related to computers or not.

[TWPonKubuntu]

GreyGeek, intriguing idea, the "earth conductor" was sending audio frequency signals.

I wonder how well that would work at somewhat higher frequency, say in the 50-100KHz range?

Above audio frequency and somewhat faster data transmission.

I know VLF radio can be received via a grounded feed line, not sure if it runs into any legal restrictions...

[TWPonKubuntu]

I am again reminded of the "boiling frog" scenario...

Slowly, Slowly the heat is rising...

Look it up if you don't understand this.

[GreyGeek]

GreyGeek, intriguing idea, the "earth conductor" was sending audio frequency signals.

I wonder how well that would work at somewhat higher frequency, say in the 50-100KHz range?

Above audio frequency and somewhat faster data transmission.

I know VLF radio can be received via a grounded feed line, not sure if it runs into any legal restrictions...

They do. The FCC will not allow unlicensed transmissions of any form of electronic signal.


About 5 miles northwest of Silver Creek, NE, is where an old submarine radio transmitter was located. It transmitted in the 120Khz frequency at 110 KW, IIRC. The antenna was 1,200 ft tall but part of it was in the ground. I lived about 15 miles away from it for about 10 years. When I drove down Hwy 30, about 5 miles directly south of it, for a couple miles, I could turn on my radio and move the dial below 550KHz and pick up a heterodyne of the signal. It was a buzzing sound. I read somewhere that they were sending a form of Morse code, compressed into repeating 5X5 blocks of equal length data, i.e., encrypted. They gave tours of the facility when it was in operation and discussed the transmission of radio signals through air and the earth, although many people don't believe the earth can pass radio signals, since it is often used as a "ground" for electronic devices. Radio waves in the extremely low frequency (ELF) band of 30 to 300 Hz can penetrate to a depth of hundreds of meters, allowing them to communicate with submarines at their normal operating depth, but require considerably more power than AM or higher transmitters. To block a radio signal an object has to be about 10X larger than the signal's wavelength. The ELF wavelength is between 10Km and 100 KM. Because of that ELF waves can also penetrate significant distances into earth or rock, and "through-the-earth" underground mine communication systems use frequencies of 300 to 3000 Hz. The frequency of alternating current flowing in electric power grids, 50 or 60 Hz, also falls within the ELF band, making power grids an unintentional source of ELF radiation.

Project Sanguine used a ground dipole effect:

A ground dipole consists of two ground electrodes buried in the earth, separated by tens to hundreds of kilometers, linked by overhead transmission lines to a power plant transmitter located between them. Alternating current electricity flows in a giant loop between the electrodes through the ground, radiating ELF waves, so the ground is part of the antenna.

So, the Hippies were on to something, but once the cat is out of the bag it would be easy enough to track ELF as easily as RF.

As far as an uncensored Internet was concerned, line of sight CO2 laser modems in bridge mode connecting house to house, building to building, mountain top to mountain top, with several (many, all?) having multiple transceivers connecting to several other multi-transceivers, creating the classic DARPA network. One watt should be powerful enough to go 10 miles with little attenuation. (I'm looking at a Class 3B, 5 mW green laser that can easily been seen from that distance!) CO2 lasers shoot infrared beams through just about any kind of weather or atmospheric pollution. Maybe even a meager 100 mW would be enough. It's not visible to the naked eye, and a man-in-the-middle would have to be precisely that, exactly in between a transmitter and a receiver, which wouldn't be hard to do, but a time-of-flight reound-trip check would reveal the additional path length to either end of the node, alerting operators to the presence of an intruder.

The beam could even be bounced off of front surfaced mirrors and reflected to even greater distances, limited only by the sensitivity of the receiving portion of the transceiver, so mountain top reflectors would need power, just occasional cleaning, if that.

[TWPonKubuntu]

GreyGeek, I was hearing about the VLF/ULF submarine comms when I taught physics in the '90's. But it is still electromagnetic, which gives the PTB an interest...

I do like the IR lasers though, low power, available now and relatively easy to modulate. Combine this with the proven technology of local internet configurations and it becomes a viable alternative to the ICANN/IAEA system.

Of course it more than likely that an attempt will be made to legislate this into control, but I'm not sure the manpower is available to monitor L-O-S laser links. For that matter, it may already be in use in some places...

[GreyGeek]

GreyGeek, I was hearing about the VLF/ULF submarine comms when I taught physics in the '90's. But it is still electromagnetic, which gives the PTB an interest...

I do like the IR lasers though, low power, available now and relatively easy to modulate. Combine this with the proven technology of local internet configurations and it becomes a viable alternative to the ICANN/IAEA system.

Of course it more than likely that an attempt will be made to legislate this into control, but I'm not sure the manpower is available to monitor L-O-S laser links. For that matter, it may already be in use in some places...

Ah, another physics teacher! I taught Physics, Electronics, Calculus, DiffEq, Inorganic Chem, Organic Chem, Analytical Chem, Microbiology, Anatomy&Physiology and Computer Science at a small midwest private college until I quit to form my own computer and criminal forensics consulting business, which I ran for about 15 years before my last client offered me a job my wife wouldn't let me refuse.

Yes, ULF/ELF is still EMR, which is totally controlled from 0Hz to Infinity by the FCC. I have little doubt that an oppressive government would outlaw CO2 lasers as well. I have an 8mm Sony hand camera that has a "Night" mode. A CO2 lamp in front, beneath the lens is turned on and illuminates the region out to about 75-100 meters. In total darkness the reflected CO2 light allows one to make out faces of people at that range and identify them. You can also easily identify animals and foliage. The more heat an object puts out the easier it is to spot and identify it. I could use that camera to see infrared light scattering off of particles impinged by the CO2 beam, thus "seeing" the beam. Thus, the PTB could easily see CO2 modem transceivers as well with their starlight devices. Even from orbit. However, it would be easier than burying our own optical cable.

Embedding encrypted data in IP packets would soon be detected and deleted. And, I suspect, it won't be long before the IP packet definition will be required to include self-identifying information, encrypted by the state, much like Microsoft's GUID, making any modification or embedment of secret data impossible. That would also disallow IPv8 or IPv9, which wouldn't be allowed. That's why I say that IPv6 was made for Big Brother, even though those who created it had no intention of supporting totalitarianism.
That's why using the existing network infrastructure won't work.

[TWPonKubuntu]

GreyGeek, I taught Physics and Chemistry at a Community College. I burned out on the public education system and went freelance doing some electronic and medical hardware design, moving into strictly software in the 90's.

Re an alternate "internet" structure, If you maintain your own 'net, either via hardwire or wireless, it can still be compromised, but not (yet) legislated out of existence. The final alternative is "sneaker net", with runners to transfer data via portable storage devices like USB or SSD. I can see this last option being useful if the current "Internet" (ICANN/IENEA) goes down.

We're not so close to a shutdown of the WWW, but since it is designed to allow such shutdown, it makes sense to plan for alternatives...

[GreyGeek]

GreyGeek, I taught Physics and Chemistry at a Community College. I burned out on the public education system and went freelance doing some electronic and medical hardware design, moving into strictly software in the 90's.

Re an alternate "internet" structure, If you maintain your own 'net, either via hardwire or wireless, it can still be compromised, but not (yet) legislated out of existence. The final alternative is "sneaker net", with runners to transfer data via portable storage devices like USB or SSD. I can see this last option being useful if the current "Internet" (ICANN/IENEA) goes down.

We're not so close to a shutdown of the WWW, but since it is designed to allow such shutdown, it makes sense to plan for alternatives...

Using a lot of 1 GB USB sticks at about $2,30 each, one can pass along a lot of sticks with encrypted info. The public key having been sent by other methods.

That gets me back to the most economical and prolific way of spreading information that has ever been developed. Radio.
http://www.al7fs.us/AL7FS3.html

[TWPonKubuntu]

VLF will certainly work for data exchange, if somewhat slower than our current UHF wifi (we have been spoiled...).

Voice and/or Morse is certainly an option and we have a very good repeater setup here, maintained by some of the local HAM's.

Nobody locally is trying data transmission (that I am aware of), I do hear enough legitimate data transmissions that I suspect the equipment is already in the area and if the need arose, the technical expertise is available.

Sneaker net is looking more and more attractive, given the low cost of USB sticks. and even SSD harddrives with USB ports.

[GreyGeek]

.... Sneaker net is looking more and more attractive, given the low cost of USB sticks. and even SSD harddrives with USB ports.

What would be needed is an application that formats the USB and then copies the encrypted data to it, and then encrypts the USB stick, all with an RSA 4096 key. A problem that would arise is that if everyone uses their own key to encrypt their data and stick, getting their public key to everyone without the bad guyes getting a copy would be a serious handicap. This "sneaker net" wouldn't be a real network. And, to get info out to a sizable number of people quickly would require an exponential copying of sticks. Person A would make 10 copies and give them to 10 people, along with his public key. They would EACH create 10 copies with their own key and EACH would pass a copy to 10 people. That's 110 people besides A. Each of those ten would ....
From a reception point of view, if I was part of a network of say just 10,000 people I would be spending 24/7/365 just plugging in USB sticks, decrypting them and reading the contents, when I wasn't passing along new content. With a radio I could contact all 10,000 at once and send then an encrypted copy of some content. (The public key being sent manually and surreptitiously at a prior date). With a CO2 modem transceiver the IPv6 packet could be used, with packets looking for a specific hardware address or IPv6 address, without the need for a DNS. We're not talking commercial stuff here so domain names would not be necessary for them. And, most people frequent only a handful of sites, probably not exceeding a couple hundred. The HWadrr or the IPv6 addr for them could be kept in a local database on each user's computer. When word of keyboard (or mouth) gets around about a new addition to the network, or a new computer is added to the network, or a new one that replaces an old one, the addresses could be sent out to all to update the local db that are in the network. What would not be in a local db would be the names or physical addresses of anyone on the network.

Just day dreaming here. I doubt anything such thing like this would ever be built, assuming that people are allowed to own computers in the future that are not made by the State with branding specific to you. If not, then why own one? When the State can do what it wants when ever it wants without recourse what difference does it make if it tells you and I or not? Just like Big Brother, that's what public address systems will be for.

[woodsmoke]

Ahh my old friend,

I taught Physics, Electronics, Calculus, DiffEq, Inorganic Chem, Organic Chem, Analytical Chem, Microbiology, Anatomy&Physiology and Computer Science at a small midwest private college

you would be drummed out of the place according to the latest rules by Obama to screw the community colleges and force students to the four year colleges and force perfectly qualified teachers to SPEND MORE THAN THEY WILL MAKE to take............."make work classes on Saturday mornings". at ......the University!

And also to force people who have taught for decades to go back to take a couple of thousand dollars of UNION supplied classes to be "qualified" to teach.

The latest tank of crappola to slide down on us at the beginning of the semester is that one can have a Master's Degree in ANYTHING... literally ANYTHING....basket weaving or fly fishing but has to have a certain minimum numbver of hours IN THE PARTICULAR CLASS that one is teaching to be deemed by the Federal Bureaucracy as worthy.

So... you might have 20 hours in physics but if not 20 hours in electronics then you....are just stoopid...

I have a question to ask.....

Would not one think.....that a PhD that is the head of "division" let us say, physical sciences, would have the KNOWLEDGE and COMMON SENSE to be able to "make a decision" that if a person has taught a subject for twenty years and is cross certified in two subjects that are related INTIMATELY that possibly that person could teach a class? and if the person screws the pooch then the person is dumped or moved into a silo..

but no...........it is all about the unions making money, the MS granting universities making money...

and the STUDENT spending MORE MONEY.............of course, THAT is a political talking head selling point .....for ANOTHER ELECTION in four years...

what a boatload!

woodaaarrrggghhhsmoke