A must read very important news

[67GTA]

The CC has just said they are not backing down http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2015/05/29/...athan-riddell/

[xennex81]

I feel it would be bad (omen) if people walked away from Kubuntu as a means of walking away from Ubuntu. I feel Kubuntu's core is stronger, it is more community, people should not walk away from it, they should stick to it as it is going its own direction.

I don't think the move to debian is very friendly, but just stick around, we will see this through.

[xennex81]

The CC has just said they are not backing down http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2015/05/29/...athan-riddell/

These words read like "We will not accept disagreement":

We would like to better explain the framework the Community Council used to make this difficult decision.

• Be Respectful
  • Disagreement is no excuse for poor manners.
  • Assume good intentions.
  
  
• Value decisiveness, clarity and consensus
  • Disagreements, social and technical, are normal, but we do not allow them to persist and fester.
  
  
• We value discussion, data and decisiveness
  • Ultimately, if a decision has been taken by the people responsible for it, and is supported by the project governance, it will stand.
  
  
• Take responsibility for our words and our actions
  • If someone has been harmed or offended, we listen carefully and respectfully, and work to right the wrong.

This is all about not accepting disagreement. They talk about disrespect, but who is the arbiter of that? They are making themselves Gods. They are the ones who decide when another has been disrespectful (a bit like common criminal courts do). ASSUME GOOD INTENTIONS is not always possible, this means they want another to always insist that they are doing the right thing.

I believe they have accused Riddell of breaking those "intentions". He has voiced that people did not understand, that people did the wrong thing. It was meant to confront people. They have seen it as disagreement in a way that interrupts or conflicts with their goals.

This is all very politically oriented. My feeling at "Ubuntu community" is that there is no Ubunty Community, there is only a Kubuntu Community. What gives in trying to be with Ubuntu? I have seen no reason to "join" that "community". I have seen reason to join this one. This one is actually a much better community, but if their "community" is driven by financial or seeming corporate interests, then it is not by ill chance that they are infuriated by someone opposing their goals, I would even call them lackeys. Yes, that is perhaps insulting and it is precisely the kind of 'conduct' that they are saying Riddell has perpetrated.

Riddell has always been generous to me, little time though I have spent in the chat channels. He has proposed I join in packaging something I have not yet been able to comply or join or really consider. I think he is a warm leader and he is just defending his community members.

He may be rough and so am I, you've seen me here. It is a bit of the same. When you get irritated and annoyed you can be overly direct and you can voice your opposition in a way that offends people when they are at a place where they don't want to be underappreciated for a certain thing, or a certain work. I think Riddell can be blamed for a lack of tacitness or knowing how to glue things together but at the same time you need a strong person who is willing to call the shots, to voice the opinion, to not be afraid to speak up even if it insults some people.

I see little wrong with Riddell. I think it is more of a thing that will blow over as the people around Ubuntu are not going to take kindly of the UCC acting in this way. They are losing support, I am quite sure of that. Everyone can see their intentions and that it is a very covert way of dealing with stuff without voicing the real reasons.

[ronw]

Actually we've had it for some time. I have it installed on a siduction VM, but I wouldn't recommend it yet. It's not quite ready for prime time, IMO.

Interesting. Is Siduction vanilla Sid, or they are adding magic sauce?

This reference in that thread makes me think magic sauce:

http://packages.siduction.org/kdenex...n/binary-amd64

[SteveRiley]

development of Ubuntu

Shuttleworth has major plans for Canonical that really don't involve the flavors much anymore: enterprise revenue, cloud, and an IPO.

None of these are necessarily a bad thing, of course. Red Hat makes tons of money from enterprise sales, and arguably does more for the advancement of Linux than any other distro. Canonical's cloud group is consistently profitable. Canonical seems determined to piss away more money on mobile, despite so little progress after so many years. But the desktop, for Canonical at least, seems to be less and less relevant.

[Snowhog]

But the desktop, for Canonical at least, seems to be less and less relevant.

For Canonical maybe, but for real world users of Linux, I think not.

[SteveRiley]

For Canonical maybe, but for real world users of Linux, I think not.

Right. I see that my sentence structure could be more precise. My comment was only an observation of Canonical's behavior, not a general statement about the fate of the desktop. While I love my phone and tablet, they are no substitute for a horizontal input surface (keyboard and mouse plane) and a vertical display surface (monitor plane). When compared to a proper equipment setup on a proper desk, or even a laptop on the couch, phone and tablet ergonomics are abysmal. This is just not good body posture:

[xennex81]

Right. I see that my sentence structure could be more precise. My comment was only an observation of Canonical's behavior, not a general statement about the fate of the desktop. While I love my phone and tablet, they are no substitute for a horizontal input surface (keyboard and mouse plane) and a vertical display surface (monitor plane). When compared to a proper equipment setup on a proper desk, or even a laptop on the couch, phone and tablet ergonomics are abysmal. This is just not good body posture:

Ha, contrary to what you might believe, I always love reading your opinions ;-). It's so agreeable, to see that another mirrors my sentiments. The hype in the tech world has been a lot like the desktop is dead, but I do not consider the replacements that we have (tablets, phones) to be real replacements that anyone can really take seriously as that.

[Qqmike]

xennex81: I do not consider the replacements that we have (tablets, phones) to be real replacements that anyone can really take seriously as that.

Yep, agree to that. The young people largely use their iPhones & tablets for email, chat, social media, exchanging pics, and such. I know some, I see how they work their tablets at lightening speeds, they are good at it. But try doing any serious work at one--it is is a stretch at best. It's nice to know how to build your own desktop PC, you can always do it, and have it your way, down to bare metal. Of course, that assumes you can buy the components. But as I see things, the DIY--do-it-yourself--market is alive and well. Vendors like ASUS seem to have an active group dedicated to serving the DIY market; and thanks to the gamers, for sure--their highly intense needs keeps things going in the component-availability markets.

[GreyGeek]

When compared to a proper equipment setup on a proper desk, or even a laptop on the couch, phone and tablet ergonomics are abysmal.

for the last three or four months my wife's illness has kept me pretty busy and all my computer needs have been fulfilled by this iPhone 6+. But, despite apps like Visual Body, SnorLab, Flighttracker24 and my bank and CC apps, typing messages is a PITA. It's like looking at the world through a toilet roll tube. Even so, it is more useful and convenient than my 10" iPad or 4th gen iPod, neither of which I use any more.

To do research on my wife's pulmonary hypertension and heart failure (HFpEF) I fired up my laptop and Kubuntu. It's "horizontal and vertical planes" felt soooo goood!!! I spent more time on that machine today than I have in the last three months.

[dibl]

Interesting. Is Siduction vanilla Sid, or they are adding magic sauce?

Nothing that I would characterize as "magic sauce". The dev team is small and very good at their business. Their installer is not the Debian stable installer. There is a "fixes" repo, and some packages such as Nvidia drivers and such get some extra love and are available there. There is a kernel-remover script that merely deletes kernel images and associated headers packages, and inxi for communicating system configuration. But it is 99.9% pure Debian, which explains why the manual is so slim. There are a few extra rules and precautions that need to be observed out of respect for Sid. "Santa" takes advantage of the fact that there is a user group willing to try out new KDE packages so the plasma 5 stuff came from his efforts.

[gnomek]

It was very interesting to read this discussions
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ub...hread.html#570
As far as I understand the situation, Jonathan had serious reasons to ask those legitimate questions about funding.

If Kubuntu goes to Debian, it will somehow affect also Mint KDE and Netrunner (as they are based on Kubuntu and not directly on Ubuntu). At least they will have to get the work done on KDE by themselves, I guess.
What I like about Kubuntu is KDE as is (without flavours customisation that I need to correct anyway) and Kubuntu Backports PPA with new KDE releases. I hope, even if developers switch to Debian they will keep this excellent work on KDE and as a user I will follow them.

[GreyGeek]

IMO, the polish the Kubuntu devs give to the KDE setting on top of Ubuntu can be given to KDE version of Debian with no additional effort, once the servers, coding environment, revision control and independent IRC is set up. Blue-Systems support of Jonathan and some of the other eight developers isn't dependent on SABDFL's approval or his money.

Should it it be based on stable or Sid? I'd vote stable because a distro the is both polished and stable is, for me preferable to bloodshed. One of my pet peeves is development advancing to the next release without adequately addressing the nagging or annoying bugs in the current release. My experience with Kubuntu is that its LTS is STABLE.

SABDFL wants to monetize the Ubuntu binaries in order to force derivatives to either pay up or compile their own source. Anyone who is given a binary of GPL code is entitled to the identical source which produced the binary. Are SABDFL's lawyers trying to find loopholes to evade that requirement or are that working on a framework for distribution which will allow it? IF Blue-Systems has to pay SABDLF for a bulk binary license why bother? The money would be better spent establishing an independent development framework using a source code that has always honored the GPL.

[xennex81]

Someone said that Shuttleworth wants to charge derivatives for the use of Ubuntu binaries. Is this true? Is this not something 'alledgedly'? It can hardly be said that that BlueSystems or whatever would be the one to pay it, that makes no sense. The only thing that makes sense is end-users, but that requires are real sales program.

(That said, I wouldn't mind BUYING Kubuntu for say 20 dollars if it's a real solid release like 14.10, not something flaky like 15.04.)

[GreyGeek]

Someone said that Shuttleworth wants to charge derivatives for the use of Ubuntu binaries. Is this true? Is this not something 'alledgedly'? It can hardly be said that that BlueSystems or whatever would be the one to pay it, that makes no sense. The only thing that makes sense is end-users, but that requires are real sales program.

As I understand what I've read, that is one of two major complaints that Riddell had with the Canonical Council. Shuttlesworth's lawyers are working on a loop hole to justify the charge for binaries. Strangely, there is no restriction in the GPL for someone charging for the source code, if the recipient is willing to pay for it. However, if one hands out a binary and the recipient wants the exact source that was used to compile the binary the GPL requires that the source code be given.

However, compiling a distro source code requires more than just the code. One must also know the tree structure and have access to the compile scripts and tools. There is no obligation in the GPL for the vendor to supply that information. RedHat, for example, is required to supply its source code to everyone who buys their server software. When I downloaded their source each of the 700+ files were individually tarred, then zipped. One had to download each file, one at a time. The server WAS limited to the number one could download at once. When all the downloads were complete and the source files untarred and unzipped one learns that there are NO instructions on how the source file structure should be arranged, there are NO bash scripts that were used to set up environmental variables and compile the kernel and individual files. Anyone who can do that is in a league very few coders reached.

(That said, I wouldn't mind BUYING Kubuntu for say 20 dollars if it's a real solid release like 14.10, not something flaky like 15.04.)

I paid $25 for a book, "Learn Linux in 24 Hours", by Bill Brush, IIRC, and RH 5.0 CD was in the back of that paperback. In Sept of 1998 I switched to SuSE 5.3 and over the next five years paid $20-$25 each for 23 copies of SuSE to support their development. Wind River handled the sales and the asking price rose over the years. I paid for copies of Mandrake, and then Mandriva. I also paid for copies of PCLinuxOS. It's been money well spent. I've never been asked to pay for Kubuntu but I've donated to it.

I would have NO objection to paying for a GPL copy of Kubuntu (or Kdebian). However, on the average fewer than 3% of users pay for a distro or donate to its development, and that figure may be high.