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    Shenana-Indiana-gins

    NOTICE: this is purely a political post (and a long one) with strong reactions. If you don't like such topics, you don't have to keep reading.



    As you might or might not be aware, Americans are apparently afraid of losing their religious freedom. They seem to have forgotten about Amendment 1 to the U.S. Constitution -- which should surprise no one, as Constitutional amnesia seems to be sweeping across the purple plains with reckless abandon. Politicians in many states have passed "religious freedom restoration acts," or RFRAs, modeled on the federal RFRA. This legislation, introduced by Chuck Schumer, a so-called Democrat who's about to take over as minority leader in the Senate, "ensures that interests in religious freedom are protected."

    In the states with RFRAs, these laws permit people (and sometimes corporations) to exempt themselves from any state law that substantially burdens their exercise of religion. (Take note here: those who do not have a religion have no such luxury of ignoring laws they don't like.) Many observers conclude that these laws provide license to discriminate against certain kinds of people because your imaginary friend tells you to. Last week, the state legislature of Indiana passed the most onerous RFRA to date: it overtly permits individuals and corporations to discriminate against and withhold services from anyone they choose, claiming "religious freedom." It was signed into law by the weasel Mike Spence, posing as governor of the state.

    A great furor spread across the land, and many prominent businesses began to extract themselves from Indiana. Weasel Mike Spence, other Indiana Republican politicians, and every potential candidate for the Republican presidential primary expressed shock! and concern! that anyone would view Indiana SB 101 as license to discriminate. Weasel Spence maintained that there was never any intent to discriminate. But he also maintained that he has no plans to carve out "exceptions" for LGTBQ citizens.

    Well, today Weasel Spence stepped upon his weasel podium and proceeded to spew mouthfuls of weasel words. I present them here, with periodic ejaculations of WTFery.

    Thank you all for coming. It's been a tough week here in the Hoosier State. But we're gonna move forward. Because as governor I have the great privilege of serving the greatest people on Earth. The people of Indiana.
    Huh? Fsck you, Weasel Spence. You're wrong: the people of Washington (no, the other one) are really the greatest people on Earth. No, that's too many. The people of Seattle. No, that's still too many. The people of the Ballard neighborhood! Actually, I didn't mean any of that. Except the "you're wrong" bit. Do you want to know why this country is so divided, Weasel Spence? It's because feckless politicians like you can't resist perpetuating an us-vs.-them mentality among your constituency. Anger and resentment are the only currency you morons know.

    Let me say first and foremost I was proud to sign the Religious Freedom Restoration Act last week. I believe religious liberty, as President Clinton said when he signed the federal law in 1993, religious liberty is our first freedom. And it is vital to millions of Americans who cherish faith as I and my family do.
    The RFRA signed into law by President Clinton was primarily to stop the federal government from interfering with certain religious practices of Native Americans that would otherwise be illegal. It had nothing to do with what you wish it really was for.

    But it's also vital to the framework of freedom in our nation,
    Bullshopt. My political freedoms have no reliance on religion.

    and this legislation was designed to ensure the vitality of religious liberty in the Hoosier State. I believe Hoosiers are entitled to the same protections that have been in place in our federal courts for the last 20-plus years and are the law in 30 other states.
    Does Indiana state law interfere with the religious practices of Native Americans residing with your borders? Do you even have any? Would you recognize one if you saw one? Otherwise, you're misdirecting again.

    But clearly, clearly there's been misunderstanding and confusion and mischaracterization of this law.
    Steaming bullshopt. The language of the legislation is clear -- brutally so. Why are you pretending otherwise? C'mon, just say it: the mere idea that Ryan and Todd like to get naked with each other disgusts you.

    And I come before you today to say how we're going to address that. We've been working over the last several days literally around the clock, and talking with people across the state of Indiana, talking to business leaders, talking to organizations across the country. And we have spent time in Indiana, enjoyed the hospitality of the people of Indiana, and we've been listening.
    I think you meant to say, "And I come before you today to say holy crap, money is flying fast out of Indiana like shopt through a goose. We better say some weasel words to comfort the afflicted!"

    Let me say first and foremost, as I've said to them, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act is about religious liberty, not about discrimination.
    Lies. The bill absolutely permits anyone in Indiana to claim religious liberty as a reason for withholding the delivery of services.

    As I said last week, had this law been about legalizing discrimination I would have vetoed it.
    Then why didn't you? It's a bill that legalizes discrimination.

    This law does not give anyone a license to discriminate.
    Yes, it does.

    The Religious Freedom Restoration Act in Indiana does not give anyone the right to deny services to anyone in this state. It is simply a balancing test used by our federal courts and jurisdictions across the country for more than two decades.
    To balance what? Religion is a private matter, between one and one's god. Religion has (should have?) no bearing whatsoever on how businesses or governments function.

    Now let me say on the subject of the bill itself, I don't believe for a minute that it was the intention of the General Assembly to create a license to discriminate or a right to deny services to gays, lesbians, or anyone else in this state. And it certainly wasn't my intent. But I can appreciate that that's become the perception not just here in Indiana but all across this country, and we need to confront that, and confront it boldly in a way that respects the interests of all involved.
    Weasel Spence, you are so full of crap. To attend the signing ceremony, you invited guests who represent organizations that actively oppose same-sex marriage. Conspicuously absent were guests who advocate for same-sex marriage. Not only did you sign a bill that expressly endorses discrimination, you yourself created the very "perception" you now claim is erroneous! How can you even live with yourself?

    A personal reflection for a moment if I can. I abhor discrimination. The way I was raised was like most Hoosiers, with the golden rule, that you should do unto others what you'd have them do unto you. And I believe in my heart of hearts that no one should be harassed or mistreated because of who they are, who they love,
    Talk is cheap, Weasel Spence. If you truly feel this way, then take a position of equality for all. Eliminate all forms of discrimination in your state. Let Todd and Ryan, who do love each other very much, get married and reap the same benefits that you and your wife do. You do realize that their marriage in no way affects yours or the millions of other opposite-sex marriages in your state? Straight marriage is not going to suddenly fail.

    or what they believe. And I believe that every Hoosier shares that conviction.
    I seriously doubt that. You're a goon, elected by goons who tremble at the slightest peep or movement from a non-WASP citizen. Because you believe that you're some kind of victim of non-WASP-ness, you and your crony coalition feel the need to erect barriers to keep "the other" away from you. Be warned: your pedestals are crumbling. You can fight, but you will lose.

    But as I've said we've got a perception problem here because some people have a different view.
    No, you have a fact problem.

    And we intend to correct that. After much reflection and in consultation with leadership of the general assembly, I've come to the conclusion that it would be helpful to move legislation this week that makes it clear that this law does not give businesses the right to deny service to anyone. Let me say that again. I think it would be helpful, and I'd like to see on my desk before the end of this week, legislation that is added to the Religious Freedom Restoration Act in Indiana that makes it clear that this law does not give businesses a right to deny services to anyone. We want to make it clear that Indiana's open for business.
    Oh, that's easy: repeal the damn law.

    We want to make it clear that Hoosier hospitality is not a slogan, it's our way of life. It's the reason why people come here from around the world and they come back again and again. Because Hoosiers are the kindest, most generous, most decent people in the world.
    Really? Indiana is ranked third in outbound migration. You really do have a problem with facts, don't you?

    Let me say I believe this is a clarification, but it's also a fix—it's a fix of a bill that through mischaracterization and confusion has come to be greatly misunderstood.
    A fix is applied to things that are broken. Not to things that just look broken. SB 101 is broken. At least you admit it needs a fix (that is, a repeal) -- even if you can't bring yourself to admit the true reason why.

    And I'm determined to address this this week. And to move forward as a state. And I know we will. Indiana has come under the harsh clare of criticism from around the country.
    Because you did a supremely dumb thing, and deserve condemnation.

    And some of us get paid to be under that harsh glare and that criticism, so we don't complain about it. But the things that have been said about our state have been at times deeply offensive to me.
    Ah, the last refuge of the scum bag: blaming the true victim. The offense started in your Senate and concluded with your signature.

    And I will continue to use every effort to defend the good and decent people of Indiana. I think it's important that we take this action this week. I've spoken to legislative leaders all the way through the last hour and we're going to be working to make that happen.
    Repeal the damn law.

    #2
    I have not yet read the entire post, just scanned it, and agree with this:
    Repeal the damn law
    I'm on liberal email lists of most major groups and read this sh*t all the time. It's GOP crap. Right-wing, and get this: Christians! People need to keep up with what's going in USA, and they need to make an effort to read about what goes on behind the scenes that never makes it to the Evening News segments.

    Weekly, I email-correspond with a buddy in Indiana, who sent out this mass email this week, to this effect:

    I am changing my address from this:

    XYZ Drive etc. [deleted for his privacy]
    Carmel IN 46032

    to this:
    XYZ Drive etc.
    Carmel 46032

    Took me awhile to get it as I was thinking maybe the USPO changed a zip code or something ...
    An intellectual says a simple thing in a hard way. An artist says a hard thing in a simple way. Charles Bukowski

    Comment


      #3
      I agree ,,,,vary weaselish ,,,,,,,, "separation of church and state" ,,,,,,,any one remember this?

      VINNY
      i7 4core HT 8MB L3 2.9GHz
      16GB RAM
      Nvidia GTX 860M 4GB RAM 1152 cuda cores

      Comment


        #4
        http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/0...a?detail=email
        I didn't critically analyze this, but you get the point; it's the overriding flavor of much of the recent GOP goofs around the USA: hypocrisy--of religion, of philosophy, even of actions (Teddie Cruz & wifey signing up for Obama Care so they can campaign for him together--have they done this or changed their minds?, not to speak of his Cubano citizenship wrangle vs Obama's hard time with the GOP ... Hawaii IS one of our states, isn't it? just checking ...). I must leave this thread now, this stuff is too upsetting. It is so upsetting at times, I've un-subscribed from two of my liberal email lists this week simply because I already have an earful of what's happening among conservative circles around the nation and must put a lid on it at some point.
        An intellectual says a simple thing in a hard way. An artist says a hard thing in a simple way. Charles Bukowski

        Comment


          #5
          I was hoping this thread would be about gin

          I don't know how elected representatives continue to get away with this kind of rubbish. There must have been plenty of individuals who saw this before it was passed into law, plenty of people who had a chance to tell these guys where to stick their personal insecurities. Either nobody objected or the people who did got bulldozed. HOW do they have enough cronies to pass laws like this?

          Eugh.
          samhobbs.co.uk

          Comment


            #6
            Was going to add to this but I think SR does well at explaining the point!

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Feathers McGraw View Post
              I was hoping this thread would be about gin
              Perhaps a bottle of gin is an appropriate assistant here -- for wallowing in the topic and slogging through my forum post, haha!

              Comment


                #8
                Just because a law allows discrimination doesn't mean that discrimination will take place. In actuality, there was no law in Indiana to prevent a company from discriminating against homosexuals and such in the 1st place, unlike in Colorado.

                Personally, if someone were a true Chrisitan, they'd serve people regardless if they were gay or not (forgive my use of the no true scottsman fallacy). That's what Christians are supposed to do, show love and understanding, not hate and resentment.

                Comment


                  #9
                  You got good theory there, charles052, but if you want hate, evilness, and ugliness, against people, look no further than America's far right Christian GOP. Last count, 12,347 examples ;-),
                  here's a quickie to whet the appetite:

                  Read that first, short quote of Michele Bachman speaking:
                  http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/0...k?detail=email
                  and read the critical response she got from readers, thankfully.

                  Yeah, the theory and practice of mass illusions. If Christ DOES return, what the h*ll will he say?
                  An intellectual says a simple thing in a hard way. An artist says a hard thing in a simple way. Charles Bukowski

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Qqmike View Post
                    You got good theory there, charles052, but if you want hate, evilness, and ugliness, against people, look no further than America's far right Christian GOP. Last count, 12,347 examples ;-),
                    here's a quickie to whet the appetite:

                    Read that first, short quote of Michele Bachman speaking:
                    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/0...k?detail=email
                    and read the critical response she got from readers, thankfully.

                    Yeah, the theory and practice of mass illusions. If Christ DOES return, what the h*ll will he say?
                    I'm sad to say I see hate and ugliness in both sides equally.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Not at all sure about the "equally" and we won't go there. Interestingly, right after posting today, this popped into my mailbox. A strong opinion, but certainly not the first or most extreme I've seen like it, an opinion I think about all the time,
                      http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/0...l=emailclassic
                      As Christ is said to have said, your actions count, not your words or intentions.
                      (Not preaching here, my beliefs aside, Christ apparently did hold some very sound ethical principles, not in disagreement with other major religions/beliefs around the world and throughout history.)
                      An intellectual says a simple thing in a hard way. An artist says a hard thing in a simple way. Charles Bukowski

                      Comment

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