R.I.P., Semantic Desktop

[SteveRiley]

The Semantic Desktop, KDE's holy grail of data unification, is dead. Dead, dead, dead. Toodle-oo, Nepomuk; fare thee well, Strigi; you shall churn platters no longer in quest of ontologies.

Looks like we're back to per-application databases. Baloo is a database for files. Akonadi is a database for mail. Amarok reverts to an internal MySQL. KPeople obtains its own database. Caution: file metadata like ratings, comments, and other items KDE allows you to associate with files will be stored in extended attributes. Mount with user_xattr (default in *buntu, yay)! Rsync with -X! cp with --preserve=xattr! Forget those -> kiss your metadata goodbye.

The above metadata doesn't include the usual tags you see in media files like artist infomation, album/song name, genre, and so on. The values for these tags are embedded in the files themselves. The particular tags depend on what the container (like MP3, MP4, MKV, etc.) specification can support.

[woodsmoke]

Well, that is just too bad.


woodsmoke

[Feathers McGraw]

So the question is... will this be a good thing for KDE or bad?

I've certainly heard lots of complaints about Nepomuk over the last year or two.

[whatthefunk]

First thing I do when installing Kubuntu -> disable Nepomunk. Never liked it, never used it, and never saw the point of it. I hope KDE Wallet dies next.

[SteveRiley]

So the question is... will this be a good thing for KDE or bad?

Probably good overall. To make ontologies and semantic desktops work, users have to dedicate time to tagging things. That's a lot of work, especially for those who have massive collections. I suspect that's why the SD never took off. So eliminating a massive resource consumer that few people used is a good thing.

[MoonRise]

Not KDE Wallet..... I actually do use that. VERY beneficial here.

[SecretCode]

Caution: file metadata like ratings, tags, and comments will be stored in extended attributes. Mount with user_xattr! Rsync with -X -- no more cp-ing! Forget either of those -> kiss your metadata goodbye.

I never understood this. How does it affect backups? If extended attributes change (when I change attributes like rating for 2GB video file or artist info for 500MB of music files) but the file data doesn't, does rsync copy just the attributes?
How does it work if files are shared on file systems that windows and android storage cards can handle? Different or no extended attributes, I believe.

The rest of it sounds good.

[SteveRiley]

I never understood this. How does it affect backups? If extended attributes change (when I change attributes like rating for 2GB video file or artist info for 500MB of music files) but the file data doesn't, does rsync copy just the attributes?

Artist info, song name, genre, and so forth are tags stored in files. As such, you'll never lose those. Ratings and comments and other items that KDE allows you to add to files but aren't part of the file's container specification are now stored in extended attributes on the file system. It's necessary to mount Ext2/3/4 file systems with user_xattr first; this is the default in *buntu (not sure about other distros). If you copy/move files with extended attributes, you must remember to include whatever option is necessary. For rsync, that's -X. For cp, that's --preserve=xattr.

I realized just now I included "tags" in my earlier post. I'll remove that to avoid confusion. I'll also add the info about the option for cp, that I discovered just now.

How does it work if files are shared on file systems that windows and android storage cards can handle? Different or no extended attributes, I believe.

If you copy files to a filesystem that doesn't support extended attributes, you lose the attributes.

[woodsmoke]

OK I..................

HAD THOUGHT ABOUT STARTING A SEPERATE THREAD....................

THERE ARE TWO REASONS WHY I "DID" KUBUNTU..............

aside from the fact that I was invited here by a woman who would just a soon that she would have NEVER invited me!! lol

A) THE INCREDIBLE EASE with which which I was able to enable the whole "compiz" desktip..........I mean........go to setting and tick a couple of boxes.......duuuuhhhh not the fifteen different screen and tick this one and not tick thqat one and then do ctrl-ald-del-oops-everybodyoutofthewater keystrokes..............

to where my time..........is your time.........your time......is my time...........who was that........ crooner........with a megaphone.........

to where my time in terms of "interfacing with students submitted online answers etc was minimal and my response was maximal..............

raised documents.......semitransparent documents........sweep the edge of the screen .....integrated with Kmail response.........

It was............just.................

all.............sooooooooooooooooooo

sweet................

AND THEN.........The blossoming of the "semantic desktop" along with "widgets" and "activities"..........

Welllllllllll my "internet" interaction with "classes" has been kind of minimized

because the college figured out very quickjly that if they gave me more "face to face" classes that......

duuuhhhhh the students THRIVED under the Socratic Method of teaching.........

But......

Again........

to get back to what I was going to post as a seperate thread............

THE GRAND UNIFIED THEORY..............that

SPUN US ALL INTO THIS MALSTROM.................

was........the semantic desktop.........

AND WHAT A WILD RIDE IT WAS.........even........with SR's "spinning disks"................

I HAVE BEEN TOLD OVER AND OVER............THAT........

KUBUNTU.........

IS............JUST KDE ON UBUNTU...............

So why stay with Kubuntu?

woodaskinaquestionsmoke

[SteveRiley]

So why stay with Kubuntu?

The disappearance of the semantic desktop is orthogonal to Kubuntu. Because KDE decided to ditch the semantic desktop, all KDE distributions are affected.

[woodsmoke]

Then...........my good and great friend.................

Methinks that...........some outside person...........who is not so ensconced in the semantic desktop................

is needed to

What was that story.........

The head abbot of a Zen monastary passed on from this mortal coil.........

and the acolytes were much afeared..........

They implored of the men with whom they washed their rude cassocks........

"What shall become of us?"

So.........the intermediaries........who were not "of the fold".......

conclaved a council............

and all of the "great Zen monks met in conclave"..........

They decided, since they were "the great Zen monks".........

"We shall all present a Koan and the presenter of the best Konan shall become the Head Master".

And all thereupon agreed.

Many Koans were presented ...of them were:



"What is Zen?"

A reply from another monk( in competition......WE..........

WE .........

WE.........AS PROMOTERS OF LINUX IN GENERAL AND KUBUNTU IN PARTICULAR........

should never be in compettion...



"Zen...............is ............a mirror shining!!".....

AHEM.......well....ALL OF THE MONKS THOUGHT THAT WAS.....ummm..pretty good!

mebbe he should be the Head Monk.........

But then.........

Another monk said............



"Zen......is a "mote" on the mirror shining!!"



WOAH............

Ummmmm THAT WAS PROFOUND...........

mebbe she...........should be the new Head Monk.........

Wellll........there was a cook serving tea.........

Now you gotta remember that there ARE

AS IN ..............ARE...............

TWO kinds of "tea".........

One is "what you think about".........ummm........"tea".

The other is "butter tea" ....kind of "yukky to the European / United States / British ......mind set........ummm

Tea.............with "Yak butter" in it........"

Gotta remember that one of the ways that a young buck proved that he was worthy of being a big monk was to sit under a pile of wet wool blankets in the howling Thibetan wind , sub zero, and........

MELT THE ICE OIN THE BLANKYS.......I mean......remember when your baby was under the blankys and came across as "too hot"......?? lol

Anyway..........

The ..........."cook monk" ......

.the "tea monk" was listening to all this gefelterfarb and.........said........

"You guys are all full of @#$% and........kicked over the iron tea pot that was in the recessed box below the floor to keep it warm........

He became the head monk.

woodjustsayinsmoke

pps..........one of the MANY reasons why I thought that maybe the people involved "with Linux" were / are " kind of "cool" is the "tea timer"...me thinks to wonder how many of the new people from Windblows even know of the GREAT IMPORT of having a teatimer in the lower panel.........

methinks.............almost...............none.... ....

[woodsmoke]

Ive modified the below about fifty times