Bye bye Bodhi Linux

[NickStone]

PCLinuxOS was great in the beginning and was really good for beginners. I wouldn't go anywhere near it now nor do I recommend it any longer.

Why?

[oshunluvr]

See GG's post above. A couple (more than just a couple) serious a$$holes took over the PCLinuxOS forum as Mods and would literally threaten you with expulsion if you even mentioned another distro or suggested doing something that wasn't officially sanctioned by Tex. I think calling it "Nazi-like censorship" would be a fair description. That's the main reason I left it behind. To me, a distro without a forum is not a usable distro. It's no different that using winbloze.

[DoYouKubuntu]

A couple (more than just a couple) serious a$$holes took over the PCLinuxOS forum as Mods and would literally threaten you with expulsion if you even mentioned another distro

Sounds a lot like the CafePress forums--only they actually have their forum software programmed to asterisk out any mention of their competitors! Seriously, like if you write "I tried Zazzle but it wasn't nearly as nice as CafePress," it'll post as "I tried ****** but it..." So it doesn't even matter what context you mention it in, good, bad, or indifferent, it still isn't allowed. And then there's Ubuntu Forums, where you're reprimanded for daring to mention that it's possible to log in as root.

[claydoh]

Sounds a lot like the CafePress forums--only they actually have their forum software programmed to asterisk out any mention of their competitors! Seriously, like if you write "I tried Zazzle but it wasn't nearly as nice as CafePress," it'll post as "I tried ****** but it..." So it doesn't even matter what context you mention it in, good, bad, or indifferent, it still isn't allowed.

Most all forum software has that sort of filter, used mainly to filter out swear words.

And then there's Ubuntu Forums, where you're reprimanded for daring to mention that it's possible to log in as root.

This is a long standing policy over there, and with a very good reason behind it. It used to be that there were almost daily occurrences where someone would **** things up royally by enabling root, often after some Joe Random Forum Member suggested to enable it.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1486138
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...ght=root+login

Note that they do link to the wiki page on how to do it

[jlittle]

Most all forum software has that sort of filter, used mainly to filter out swear words.

I had fun recently trying to link to the Wikipedia page for the BFS scheduler, which uses the expanded name as the page title. Eventually I used & # 46 ; (without spaces) for the F.

Regards, John Little

[NickStone]

See GG's post above. A couple (more than just a couple) serious a$$holes took over the PCLinuxOS forum as Mods and would literally threaten you with expulsion if you even mentioned another distro or suggested doing something that wasn't officially sanctioned by Tex. I think calling it "Nazi-like censorship" would be a fair description. That's the main reason I left it behind. To me, a distro without a forum is not a usable distro. It's no different that using winbloze.

Well I disagree, forums are not an integral part of any distro. You can use any distro without the need to post comments on forums such as this one. For people who do get stuck with a distro thyere are plenty of pages on line for help plus books that you can buy to teach yourself how to use and run Linux successfully.

I do think that forums such as this one are a fun way of meeting other users of that distro and to share your knowledge with others, but to not recommend a distro just because of a few "distro-nazi's" that dictate what happens in forums I think is wrong.

I downloaded PCLInuxOS yesterday and had a little play with it from the live DVD and in my opinion it does look like a very good well put together distro, but I won't be installing it simply because I am very happy with the distro I'm using now. Should I get tired of my current distro I will consider switching to PCLinuxOS in the future (don't know when that will be though).

[claydoh]

It sure was more than just a few nazis, iirc, and it is/was part of their system to be that way.
My extremely minimal dealings with Texstar left a slightly bad taste in my mouth, way back before there even was a PCLOS.


My own view on this is that the users are part of the overall community, whether they participate or not. How one treats the users, or allows them to be treated, means something. Being able to give back, to "pay" for this OS that others have put together, whether here, or irc, or mailing list, or by whatever means one can do or wants to do is also good for the whole ecosystem, no matter if one takes an active part in it or not.

Plus a forum is a good place for those who can't find or can't understand or can't filter the information they are looking for.

[NickStone]

To mis-quote a famous quotation.

The report of my death is greatly exaggerated

http://forums.bodhilinux.com/index.p...erring-duties/

[GreyGeek]

... forums are not an integral part of any distro. You can use any distro without the need to post comments on forums such as this one. For people who do get stuck with a distro thyere are plenty of pages on line for help plus books that you can buy to teach yourself how to use and run Linux successfully.

Well, *a lot* (don't know it if is *most*) can use any distro without the need of a forum like this, but a lot can't. My wife, for example. Were it not for me she wouldn't be able to run Kubuntu or even Windows. She sees no patterns, no relationships, she can't tell the difference between using the desktop interface and, say, Dolphin and when shown the menu structure of FireFox, she can't relate that to menu structures of other programs. IOW, she can not extend patterns and relationship. She simply chooses not to learn how to do it because she has other things she likes to do better and it is easier to ask me. I've tried to teach her, but she usually ends up saying "why do I have to learn that complicated stuff when I can simply ask you, or ask you to do it?" So, like I said 53 years ago, "I Do"

I do think that forums such as this one are a fun way of meeting other users of that distro and to share your knowledge with others, but to not recommend a distro just because of a few "distro-nazi's" that dictate what happens in forums I think is wrong.

Forums certainly are, as long as there is mutual self-respect and tolerance, and keeping in mind that minors may be reading it as well. It's because Nazis in charge of some forums that mutual self-respect is ignored and intolerance reigns. The worst thing I can read on a forum, except for needless vulgarity, is "RTFM". What? That's part of what we are hear for. I do not remain long or return to such forums.

I downloaded PCLInuxOS yesterday and had a little play with it from the live DVD and in my opinion it does look like a very good well put together distro, but I won't be installing it simply because I am very happy with the distro I'm using now. Should I get tired of my current distro I will consider switching to PCLinuxOS in the future (don't know when that will be though).

As I said, I used PCLinuxOS for about a year, at the time when it was #1 on Distrowatch's Page Hit Ranking (which is really meaningless) and throughly enjoyed it. As long as TexStar was in charge of development and being the super moderator of the forum it was a great distro. When the hurricane blew him out of Huston and he had to take a year's sabbatical to get his life back in order that is when the stuff hit the fan. Within the space of 3 or 4 months the forum became intolerable. Those that took over control of the development didn't have the same skill sets that TexStar did and the distro itself suffered terrible. Since TexStar has returned the distro returned to former quality of excellence. I didn't return because I found Mandriva and five years ago Kubuntu. I would have no qualms about returning to PCLinuxOS if I felt the need to do so. I would also consider returning to the only other distro I used for five years or more, SUSE (formerly known as SuSE). Although I've grown to appreciate the deb packaging system more than I appreciate the RPM, I have no doubt that the bugs which plagued the RPM have been repaired since I left SuSE and PCLinuxOS. I've also found the KWheezy, Fedora, RH, and several others I've used are also good. In fact, I've never met a Linux distro which I couldn't make run on my hardware in a reasonable fashion. The only separator between them was how much work was necessary to get it work as if it was just "out of the box", i.e., everything just works.

I, personally, didn't need the PCLinuxOS forum in order to use PCLinuxOS, any more than I need this forum to run Kubuntu. With 16 years of Linux use under my belt I can use any distro independently of any forum. So could Snowhog, Dibl, Steve, Claydoh, and several dozen other people who frequent this forum, some because of their long history with Linux, others because of their brilliant minds. (I'll let them argue over who fits in what camp! ) I am here to help others who may need it and to enjoy the exchanges with others about Linux and any other topic we decide to discuss. We are giving back, helping others freely because of those in the past who helped us freely without asking to be paid. I don't care if the person needs help with Kubuntu or any other distro, or even Windows, since most running Windows are doing it dual boot and use Linux as well, and for some applications and environments Windows is the only platform available.

[bendy]

Personally I think forums are less important than they used to be, but still have an important role to play. I first started with linux a very long time ago with a free copy of Corel Linux that was bundled with a copy of Partition Magic that I bought.

Corel has a good reputation at the time for being "user friendly" by the standards of the day, which were low. I had barely heard of linux before this, but my interest was sufficiently piqued for me to make an effort to try it. And I can promise you that if it wasn't for the very helpful and constructive forum I would have given up on it, and linux.

I'm sure that some of the more "senior" members here can remember that installing linux 15 years ago, and getting all your hardware to work properly was considerably more challenging in those days. You could generally expect it to find your hard drive controller without any help, and probably your wired ethernet port but after that a lot of manual fiddling was required. Who can remember all the messing around with module parameters to get your sound card to work (if you were lucky)? What about all the desperate cries for help from people who couldn't connect to the internet because they had crappy "soft" modems that only worked in windows? And as for wireless connections - anyone getting those to work properly in those days deserved an honorary degree from a major university.....

Fortunately, all distros in those days were blessed with a handful of gurus who figured all this stuff out, and where generous enough to walk newbies through it all step-by-step. Any those newbies where sufficiently grateful that they would then pass on the knowledge to newer newbies. And thus a positive community spirit was formed, with the forums at the centre.

Fast-forward 10 years and it's all different. Pick any mainstream distro, pop a livecd into any box of standard PC hardware and watch everything work. Users have less need to visit the forums, and gurus don't need to spend as much time coaching newbies. Newbies who don't need help aren't exposed to the positive community spirit that is built on top of mutual assistance and trust.

Aaaahhhh, I wish for the good old days, when you had to earn your linux experience with several weeks of effort just to get all your hardware working. Kids these days just have to worry about tweaking their fonts and finding a kewl wallpaper on deviantart.

[Qqmike]

I think forums are extremely important for the sense of community, shared ideas, and enthusiasm generated. And, some of those little naggy glitches, like a webcam or a font, can be a frustrating show-stopper for many users who can not find a ready fix on their own. Being a member of a forum is kind of like having a hobby--one with a strong social factor--that you look forward to, one that runs 24x7.

[life0riley]

I think forums are extremely important for the sense of community, shared ideas, and enthusiasm generated.
...

Agreed. This forum is all of that and more. Following posts and participating when able to has helped take me to a level that I may not have achieved on my own. Collaboration is the key.

[DoYouKubuntu]

Personally I think forums are less important than they used to be, but still have an important role to play. I first started with linux a very long time ago with a free copy of Corel Linux that was bundled with a copy of Partition Magic that I bought.

Corel has a good reputation at the time for being "user friendly" by the standards of the day, which were low. I had barely heard of linux before this, but my interest was sufficiently piqued for me to make an effort to try it. And I can promise you that if it wasn't for the very helpful and constructive forum I would have given up on it, and linux.

I'm sure that some of the more "senior" members here can remember that installing linux 15 years ago, and getting all your hardware to work properly was considerably more challenging in those days. You could generally expect it to find your hard drive controller without any help, and probably your wired ethernet port but after that a lot of manual fiddling was required. Who can remember all the messing around with module parameters to get your sound card to work (if you were lucky)? What about all the desperate cries for help from people who couldn't connect to the internet because they had crappy "soft" modems that only worked in windows? And as for wireless connections - anyone getting those to work properly in those days deserved an honorary degree from a major university.....

Fortunately, all distros in those days were blessed with a handful of gurus who figured all this stuff out, and where generous enough to walk newbies through it all step-by-step. Any those newbies where sufficiently grateful that they would then pass on the knowledge to newer newbies. And thus a positive community spirit was formed, with the forums at the centre.

Fast-forward 10 years and it's all different. Pick any mainstream distro, pop a livecd into any box of standard PC hardware and watch everything work. Users have less need to visit the forums, and gurus don't need to spend as much time coaching newbies. Newbies who don't need help aren't exposed to the positive community spirit that is built on top of mutual assistance and trust.

Aaaahhhh, I wish for the good old days, when you had to earn your linux experience with several weeks of effort just to get all your hardware working. Kids these days just have to worry about tweaking their fonts and finding a kewl wallpaper on deviantart.

Excellent post!

[eggbert]

Fast-forward 10 years and it's all different. Pick any mainstream distro, pop a livecd into any box of standard PC hardware and watch everything work. Users have less need to visit the forums, and gurus don't need to spend as much time coaching newbies. Newbies who don't need help aren't exposed to the positive community spirit that is built on top of mutual assistance and trust.

Yes things are much better than ye olden days, but I still run across hardware that won't "just work" out of the box without tweaking. Lots of laptop backlight issues, sound issues, video tearing issues etc. Some of these are solvable, but you still have to -dig- for the solutions. So I think forums still serve a purpose and are necessary, but I much prefer sites with less noise like askubuntu, stackoverflow or superuser

[GreyGeek]

Most LiveCD distros are distributed as ISOs which are burned onto a CD or DVD. Because of the capacity limitations of a CD, installation ISOs have a golden "window of compatibility" for hardware on which the distro usually runs "out of the box".

Newer computers or hardware are sometime in front of that window and hence have compatibility problems with the video, sound or newer touchpads or biometric devices, until developers create drivers for them. Such drivers often appear in an update to a version and the incompatible devices suddenly (some say "magically") work.

Older hardware often slides out of the back end of that compatibility window. Thus, Broadcom's 43XX wifi chips in older hardware do not automatically connect. Users often have to plug in an ethernet cable and use that to download and install 4306 or 4311 drivers. Ditto with Radeon video chips. Sometimes, development or support stops on older hardware and their drivers or firmware become incompatible with newer kernels, leaving the user stranded. As the hardware gets older and more distant from the window of compatibility the old hardware becomes even less compatible. Worse yet, security patches and program bugs are not likely to find their way back to older hardware, making such hardware dangerous to put on line.

The advice of that old poet, Alexander Pope, applies:
"Be not the first by whom the new are tried, Nor yet the last to lay the old aside."
Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism, 1711
English poet & satirist (1688 - 1744)