spying on us -- what's real, what's hyperbole?

[Snowhog]

GG@ I'll be moving to Minneapolis some time within the next three years. It'd be a day ride for me to come down to meet you in person.

[bendy]

Well, I'm writing this from the UK where we don't have elected Judges, Police Chiefs and Prosecutors (which I consider on balance to be a good thing, when turn-outs for local elections are so low).

Can a prosecutor go all crazy all over you? Sure, but that means the prosecutor is using his/her public budget on something that may have no meaning.

Like Aaron Swartz.......

They don't have time for Mr. and Ms. Normal.

Sadly, in the UK at least, the Police can be surprisingly vindictive, have no sense of humour, and make up the law as they go. For example, people stuck in queues for delayed flights at airports have been arrested and prosecuted for tweeting jokes about bombs. Unwise and in bad taste - yes, sure. But a criminal act? Very recently, a police spokesman warned the British public that the very act on watching the video of James Foley being beheaded was against the law. They lied - there is no such law.

Besides, they are elected officials, in many cases, which could be the ultimate check and balance - if you use your intellect to pay attention and vote. Pay less attention to partisan politics and more to what candidates actually say.

How's that working out for you? What's the turn-out for the elections? How many voters actually do listen to the candidates rather than voting along party lines?

[Feathers McGraw]

Very recently, a police spokesman warned the British public that the very act on watching the video of James Foley being beheaded was against the law. They lied - there is no such law.

I think there must be a law that relates to this, or they wouldn't have been able to take down all that "terror related material" from the internet. So much for free speech eh? Personally I think this is a terrible tactic... better to leave it up and have people argue against it and sway those who are capable of rational thought.

As for the others, there was an article on /. or soylentnews recently that I unfortunately can't find, but basically it said you're more likely to re-evaluate your own opinions when faced with a more extreme version of them; opposing opinions are more likely to just make you dig in your heels. This seems consistent with my experience, where the two things that turned me off Christianity were going to church and reading the bible (and then looking up how people could possibly be OK with some of it and reading what apologetics were saying). Perhaps this will result in a mass rejection of Islam, which may actually help more in the long run?

[NickStone]

So much for free speech eh?

There is no law in the UK that allows freedom of speech. Also the UK (England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) is not a free society. There are laws that are imposed on us that we have to live by or suffer the consequences. Those laws prevent us from living truly freely. We are freer than a lot of other countries but not free.

In answer to the beheading video that was mentioned there is no law specifically banning us from watching such material but there are laws such as the obscene publications act which prevent us from watching such material so the police are correct in saying that it is against the law to watch such material.

[GreyGeek]

... Also the UK (England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) is not a free society. There are laws that are imposed on us that we have to live by or suffer the consequences. Those laws prevent us from living truly freely. We are freer than a lot of other countries but not free....

American politicians of both parties are doing their very best to force America to catch up with your area of the world, and most of the media is doing their best to help. CNN, for example, imported Piers Morgan (fresh from his photo-shopping debacle in which he edited photos to make them appear that British soldiers were torturing Iraqi citizens) so he could berate the Constitution and our freedoms each night. Most of the local policemen are honest, hard working folks who risk their lives daily to make ours safer, but an increasing majority are becoming as much of a threat as the thugs and gangsters.

[Tom_ZeCat]

American politicians of both parties are doing their very best to force America to catch up with your area of the world, and most of the media is doing their best to help. CNN, for example, imported Piers Morgan (fresh from his photo-shopping debacle in which he edited photos to make them appear that British soldiers were torturing Iraqi citizens) so he could berate the Constitution and our freedoms each night. Most of the local policemen are honest, hard working folks who risk their lives daily to make ours safer, but an increasing majority are becoming as much of a threat as the thugs and gangsters.

I would go so far as to say the United States is no longer a representative democracy. It has become an oligarchy thanks to legalized bribery via the Citizen's United ruling. Our elections have become a sham of corporate money versus corporate money. Even who you vote for, if elected, rarely represents your interests. Our elected representatives represent their corporate sponsors, end of story.

[Snowhog]

Time for an old-fashioned tar and feather party in Washington, D.C. I've said it before; I'll keep saying it: Vote ALL OF THEM out of office. Put all new people in. Let everyone of them know they'll be next "if".

[GreyGeek]

I would go so far as to say the United States is no longer a representative democracy. It has become an oligarchy thanks to legalized bribery via the Citizen's United ruling. Our elections have become a sham of corporate money versus corporate money. Even who you vote for, if elected, rarely represents your interests. Our elected representatives represent their corporate sponsors, end of story.

+100%
From my POV those elected politicians who aren't in the Socialists or Corporate tanks are in it for themselves, tryiing to accrue as much money and exercise as much self-serving power as they can, while they can, for as long as they can.

The Right is funded by the Koch and Wilks brothers and the Left by Soros, Bloomberg, Buffett and Steyer. Together they and the corporations they run and the non-profits they fund are destroying our Republic. Both decry the other and avert their eyes from the damage done by their own cohorts. The Left is better at defaming the Koch brothers because most of the media is in alignment with them and against the Right. I saw a twitter debate in which a Dem was whining about Koch and was reminded of the fact that Soros funds most of the Left. The Dem retorted "being funded by Soros is OK because he isn't trying to screw everyone the way the Koch brothers are." Lots of kool-aide being dispensed on both sides. Actually, it reminds me of what I've read about the fights between the Federalists and the Republicans in the 1790's and early 1800s. Lots of partisian journalism back then, too.

Here in Nebraska Rep Pete Ricketts is opposed by Dem Chuck Hassebrook. Pete is being funded by his millionaire dad and Chuck is getting money from Warren Buffet. One will be a corporate clown and the other a socialist tool. It's choosing between the lesser of two evils. Heads you lose, tails you lose.

Vote them all out? I wish that would solve the problem but the pool of folks from which we select our candidates are equally corrupt and self serving. That is evident by the fact that more than HALF of all Americans are receiving unearned Federal handouts, claiming disability from invisible injuries (attested to by doctors who bilk the health system for all they can get), ambulance chasing attorneys, etc... I remember when it was unethical for attorneys and doctors to advertise for clients. America has lost its moral and ethical footing and is no longer the nation I remember it was 50 years ago. I remember enjoying freedoms that today's citizens can only dream about. They do not understand how far our nation has fallen into chaos. I never thought in a million years I would find it necessary to stand on the steps of our state capital and defend the Constitution.

[Tom_ZeCat]

+100%
From my POV those elected politicians who aren't in the Socialists or Corporate tanks are in it for themselves, tryiing to accrue as much money and exercise as much self-serving power as they can, while they can, for as long as they can.

The Right is funded by the Koch and Wilks brothers and the Left by Soros, Bloomberg, Buffett and Steyer. Together they and the corporations they run and the non-profits they fund are destroying our Republic. Both decry the other and avert their eyes from the damage done by their own cohorts. The Left is better at defaming the Koch brothers because most of the media is in alignment with them and against the Right. I saw a twitter debate in which a Dem was whining about Koch and was reminded of the fact that Soros funds most of the Left. The Dem retorted "being funded by Soros is OK because he isn't trying to screw everyone the way the Koch brothers are." Lots of kool-aide being dispensed on both sides. Actually, it reminds me of what I've read about the fights between the Federalists and the Republicans in the 1790's and early 1800s. Lots of partisian journalism back then, too.

Here in Nebraska Rep Pete Ricketts is opposed by Dem Chuck Hassebrook. Pete is being funded by his millionaire dad and Chuck is getting money from Warren Buffet. One will be a corporate clown and the other a socialist tool. It's choosing between the lesser of two evils. Heads you lose, tails you lose.

Vote them all out? I wish that would solve the problem but the pool of folks from which we select our candidates are equally corrupt and self serving. That is evident by the fact that more than HALF of all Americans are receiving unearned Federal handouts, claiming disability from invisible injuries (attested to by doctors who bilk the health system for all they can get), ambulance chasing attorneys, etc... I remember when it was unethical for attorneys and doctors to advertise for clients. America has lost its moral and ethical footing and is no longer the nation I remember it was 50 years ago. I remember enjoying freedoms that today's citizens can only dream about. They do not understand how far our nation has fallen into chaos. I never thought in a million years I would find it necessary to stand on the steps of our state capital and defend the Constitution.

I mostly agree, except I don't think the left and the right are corporately funded. I think we don't even have a left and a right. What we have are corporately sponsored pseudo-left and pseudo-right candidates masquerading as the real thing. We then have sham elections with grossly distorted 30-second commercials as people's source of information. Whichever corp-whore manipulates the public best with misinformation wins. It's been years since we had truly liberal and truly conservative politicians clash on sincerely held principles.

[GreyGeek]

The political spectrum has shifted significantly in the last 30-40 years. What is considered "conservative" today would map closely to the political beliefs expressed by Truman, Eisenhower or JFK. Hollywood whined (and continues to whine) a lot about a 1950s blacklist against communists, but today's Hollywood blacklists most actors whose politics aren't far Left, so it merely depends on what ideologies are being blacklisted as to whether blacklisting is good or bad. Things began to change with Johnson, and took a nose dive with Nixon. Now, the current administrations actions make Nixon's felonies look like misdemeanour’s, and Congress (both parties) are equally as bad.

[MoonRise]

Originally Posted by SteveRiley

....
I do, in fact, listen to what politicians say. Republicans, as usual, are blithering idiots. And so are Democrats. Both have completely warped themselves into Mr. Geer's accusation of realpolitik, resulting in a government that wantonly exercises immense and destructive power against its own citizens. There no longer exists a system of checks and balances when each branch erects rules and procedures that serve to relegate said controls to the margins. When the highest court in the land finds within its purview to grant religious protection to corporations, which themselves are creations of the state, can you not see that the institutions of government have been completely bought and paid for? Mr. and Mrs. Normal have absolutely no voice, no advocate, no influence, and no defense. The United States is broken. I fear it cannot be fixed.

Steve, I could not have written that paragraph any better, and I agree 100% with your conclusions.

I too would have to +1 that.

[NickStone]

Somebody's watching me (or the paranoid song)