spying on us -- what's real, what's hyperbole?

[SteveRiley]

When a mic jack is inserted the tip of the jack pushes the tip of the spring away from the internal mic connection

But not all jacks are so wired. For example, on my T520, when I plug in a microphone into the mic jack, or a headphone into the phone jack, the expected behavior happens. However, using a tool like Veromix that provides Phonon routing controls for ALSA sources and sinks, I can freely switch any application between internal and external microphones and headphones. Thus, it's software that's really controlling the output, not a mechanical link.

[SteveRiley]

On this N7 tablet, however, when I tell the tablet to turn off mobile data, it's just pretending to be off... and I still get texts from my service provider.

SMS does not use mobile data. It's sent over the same carrier signal as voice.

[jeffhutch.412]

This is an interesting conversation, and it's nice to read it between people I know rather than random anonymous people on /. , so thanks OP and contributors!

Just wanted to throw into the mix that on some phones (like the Neo900) the modem is not on the same chip as other bits like WiFi, so you can truly turn it off/ isolate it from the rest of the OS if you like. From the Neo900 FAQ:



On this N7 tablet, however, when I tell the tablet to turn off mobile data, it's just pretending to be off... and I still get texts from my service provider. For some reason that really bugs me!

You still get texts because 'data' means '3g/4g'- which sms/calling DOES NOT require. Mms does use data (3g).. but turning data off means- shutting off your 'internet connection'... Airplane mode completely shuts your radio off.

[jglen490]

And you can, if you wish, live your life in fear and trembling. Or you can live your life using reasonable care, and with an amount of intelligence.

Can a prosecutor go all crazy all over you? Sure, but that means the prosecutor is using his/her public budget on something that may have no meaning. Yes, they will use that power on those who are known, but slick, criminals. They don't have time for Mr. and Ms. Normal. Besides, they are elected officials, in many cases, which could be the ultimate check and balance - if you use your intellect to pay attention and vote. Pay less attention to partisan politics and more to what candidates actually say. You'll be amazed.

I work as a contractor for a Federal agency that has deep concerns about information security. The only secure system is the one that is not connected and has no power. That, of course, is ridiculous, so it doesn't happen. Still, this agency works hard, and with some success to come up with secure - and usable - computing and communcations systems for DoD.

Live well, pay attention, use your brains along with a bit of critical thought - and not in fear.

[GreyGeek]

But not all jacks are so wired. For example, on my T520, when I plug in a microphone into the mic jack, or a headphone into the phone jack, the expected behavior happens. However, using a tool like Veromix that provides Phonon routing controls for ALSA sources and sinks, I can freely switch any application between internal and external microphones and headphones. Thus, it's software that's really controlling the output, not a mechanical link.

Ah, so your machine does. Mine doesn't. My Acer V3-771G cannot switch to internal mic when my external mic is plugged in.

[GreyGeek]

On the topic of spying on phones (or police illegally taking them):
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/0...d-2014-edition
or cameras:
https://www.aclu.org/free-speech/kno...-photographers

[SteveRiley]

I work as a contractor for a Federal agency that has deep concerns about information security.

Whose? It's own? That of its benefactors? That of its citizens? These have become, I fear, mutually exclusive.

Look -- I'm probably the bleeding-heartest, big-government-est, public-works-est American on this here forum. Give me a tax for the public good and I'll pay it! However, I call your attention to the words of Dan Geer, one of our most cautious and prescient thinkers about security and risk today:

I titled this talk "Cybersecurity as Realpolitik." Realpolitik means, in the words of British historian E. H. Carr, that what is successful is right and what is unsuccessful is wrong, that there is no moral dimension in how the world is, and that attempting to govern based on principles cannot succeed. Realpolitik is at once atheistic and anti-utopian.

I find that distasteful and, it seems, that in governing my own life I daily give up power advantage for principle. At the same time, having principles such as "Might does not make right" may well be a failing on my part and, by extension, a failing on the part of those who govern according to principle. Cybersecurity as we describe it in our mailing lists, on our blogs, at our cons, and so forth is rich in principles and utopian desiderata, all the while we have opponents at all levels and probably always will for whom principle matters little but power matters a lot. As Thomas Ray said, "Every successful system accumulates parasites" and the Internet plus every widely popular application on it has parasites. For some observers, parasites and worse are just a cost of doing business. For other observers, design which encourages bad outcomes is an affront that must be fixed. It is realism and realism alone that remains when all else fails.

Political realism of the sort I am talking about is based on four premises:

* The international system is anarchic
* States are the most important actors
* All states within the system are unitary, rational actors
* The primary concern of all states is survival

This is likewise the realism of the cybersecurity situation in a global Internet. It is anarchic, and states have become the most important actors. States' investment in offensive cyber is entirely about survival in such a world. States are driven to this by the dual, simultaneous expansion of what is possible and what their citizens choose to depend on.

The late Peter Bernstein, perhaps the world's foremost thinker on the topic, defined "risk" as "more things can happen than will." With technologic advance accelerating, "more things can happen than will" takes on a particularly ominous quality if your job is to ensure your citizens' survival in an anarchy where, daily, ever more things can happen than will. Realpolitik would say that under such circumstances, defense becomes irrelevant. What is relevant is either (1) offense or (2) getting out of the line of fire altogether. States that are investing in offense are being entirely rational and are likely to survive. Those of us who are backing out our remaining dependencies on digital goods and services are being entirely rational and are likely to survive. The masses who quickly depend on every new thing are effectively risk seeking, and even if they do not themselves know it, the States which own them know, which explains why every State now does to its own citizens what once States only did to officials in competing regimes.

[...] cybersecurity is all about power and only power. Realpolitik says that what cybersecurity works is right and what cybersecurity does not work is wrong and Realpolitik thus resonates with Howard's "Security will always be exactly as bad as it can possibly be while allowing everything to still function." Realpolitik says that offense routinely beating defense is right, and imagining otherwise is wrong, that those whose offense wins are right while those whose defense loses are wrong. Realpolitik says that offense's superiority means that it a utopian fantasy to believe that information can be protected from leakage, and so the counter-offense of disinformation is what we must deploy in return. Realpolitik says that sentient opponents have always been a fact of life, but never before have they been location independent and never before have they been able to recruit mercenaries who will work for free. Realpolitik says that attribution is impossible unless we deploy a unitary surveillance state.

I do, in fact, listen to what politicians say. Republicans, as usual, are blithering idiots. And so are Democrats. Both have completely warped themselves into Mr. Geer's accusation of realpolitik, resulting in a government that wantonly exercises immense and destructive power against its own citizens. There no longer exists a system of checks and balances when each branch erects rules and procedures that serve to relegate said controls to the margins. When the highest court in the land finds within its purview to grant religious protection to corporations, which themselves are creations of the state, can you not see that the institutions of government have been completely bought and paid for? Mr. and Mrs. Normal have absolutely no voice, no advocate, no influence, and no defense. The United States is broken. I fear it cannot be fixed.

[Feathers McGraw]

SMS does not use mobile data. It's sent over the same carrier signal as voice.

You're schooling me today Steve, thanks! So then, on Android is there no easy way to to turn off the baseband without turning off WiFi (provided it's not all on one chip)?

EDIT: actually I've just discovered that I can put it into aeroplane mode, which turns all of it off, and then re-activate WiFi. I thought reactivating WiFi would turn aeroplane mode off!!

[GreyGeek]

....
I do, in fact, listen to what politicians say. Republicans, as usual, are blithering idiots. And so are Democrats. Both have completely warped themselves into Mr. Geer's accusation of realpolitik, resulting in a government that wantonly exercises immense and destructive power against its own citizens. There no longer exists a system of checks and balances when each branch erects rules and procedures that serve to relegate said controls to the margins. When the highest court in the land finds within its purview to grant religious protection to corporations, which themselves are creations of the state, can you not see that the institutions of government have been completely bought and paid for? Mr. and Mrs. Normal have absolutely no voice, no advocate, no influence, and no defense. The United States is broken. I fear it cannot be fixed.

Steve, I could not have written that paragraph any better, and I agree 100% with your conclusions.

[NickStone]

Can someone please inform me how someone can take control of a webcam and internal mic that doesn't exist on my Dell Inspiron 6400 laptop?

[GreyGeek]

Can someone please inform me how someone can take control of a webcam and internal mic that doesn't exist on my Dell Inspiron 6400 laptop?

IF your laptop does not have a webcam, which is not unusual, or an internal mic, which would be very unusual, then you have nothing to worry about.

[anika200]

True. One can construct a device that spoofs a cell tower.
http://www.wired.com/2010/07/interce...l-phone-calls/


/

Here is a timely article on stealing all cell phone data, our own police seem to be the ones using it most.

http://america.aljazeera.com/article...veillance.html

[SteveRiley]

Steve, I could not have written that paragraph any better, and I agree 100% with your conclusions.

You and I don't exactly share a common end of the political spectrum. Yet here we are, in harmonius agreement.

I shoulda stayed in the midwest an extra day, flown to Nebraska, and had that drink on your front porch that we've discussed before!

[perspectoff]

You are a fluke of the Universe

Go placidly amid the noise and waste,
and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece of the rock.
Avoid quiet and passive persons, unless you are in need of sleep.
Rotate your tires.
Speak glowingly of those greater than yourself
and heed well their advice, even though they be turkeys.
Know what to kiss... and when.
Consider that two wrongs never make a right... but that three do.
Wherever possible, put people on hold.
Be comforted that in the face of all erudition and disillusionment,
and despite the changing fortunes of time,
there is always a big future in computer maintenance.

Remember the Pueblo.
Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle, and mutilate.
Know yourself. If you need help, call the FBI.
Exercise caution in your daily affairs,
especially with those persons closest to you...
that lemon on your left, for instance.
Be assured that a walk through the ocean of most souls
would scarcely get your feet wet.
Fall not in love, therefore; it will stick to your face.
Gracefully surrender the things of youth:
birds, clean air, tuna, Taiwan
...and let not the sands of time get in your lunch.
Hire people with hooks.
For a good time call 606-4311. Ask for Ken.
Take heart amid the deepening gloom
that your dog is finally getting enough cheese;
and reflect that whatever misfortune may be your lot,
it could only be worse in Milwaukee.

You are a fluke of the Universe.
You have no right to be here,
and whether you can hear it or not,
the Universe is laughing behind your back.

Therefore, make peace with your god,
whatever you conceive him or her to be:
hairy thunderer or cosmic muffin.
With all its hopes, dreams, promises, and urban renewal,
the world continues to deteriorate.

Give up.


(...morons.)

Reality or illusion? Mankind cannot tell (*according to published neurospsychologic studies from Stanford, etc.).

[GreyGeek]

You and I don't exactly share a common end of the political spectrum. Yet here we are, in harmonius agreement.

I shoulda stayed in the midwest an extra day, flown to Nebraska, and had that drink on your front porch that we've discussed before!

Anytime, my friend. (No porch, but a nice 2nd floor patio with a great view!)