Two weeks after my daugher bought an HP with Win8.1 ...

[GreyGeek]

she took it back to the store for a refund.

Her complaints: too much nagware, which kept popping up, sometimes team tagging. She used the Control Panel to remove them but then Win8.1 became so unstable it began crashing, requiring a reboot. Defender didn't.
It was an HP with 1 TB HD and either 8 or 16GB of RAM, but she couldn't remember the model number. She paid $1K.

Don't know what she's going to get, but she said she could not afford and Apple.

[Qqmike]

Not a good deal when that happens. When I got the spousal unit an Asus_Q501LA ($750-$800?), I expected the same issues you've seen. Interestingly, Windows 8.1 has been very well behaved! Yeah, now and then there's a pop-up offering some Cloud space or some-such (beyond what is included for free), or to try some trial software, but it is not much and not pushy and not often. Very tolerable. Windows updates and Defender are behaving nicely, too. Not as nice as a Kubuntu experience, but very tolerable for Windows.

[DoYouKubuntu]

GG, the obvious question is why didn't she/you install Kubuntu on it? Is she wrapped up in the M$ world, like with a specific program she can't do without--or THINKS she can't do without? That HP would've hummed like crazy running Linux.

[SteveRiley]

That's got to be third-party nagware. My Windows 8.1 VM, installed from the Microsoft-issued ISO, has no such garbage.

[claydoh]

HP is known for this trialware, nagware, and bloated bloaty bloatness on consumer PCs.

[Qqmike]

Like this:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-15-6-touch-screen-laptop-intel-core-i5-8gb-memory-750gb-hard-drive-black/2991012.p?id=1219085428591&skuId=2991012&st=pcmcat 190000050007_categoryid$abcat0502000&cp=1&lp=4

(Check out the specs.) i7's, of course, are more $, but this i5 is quite fast enough.
Best Buy also has (somewhere) a popular (nicely spec'd) Asus @ around $550, also. Both "Blue Label" machines (i.e., popular features).

[DoYouKubuntu]

HP is known for this trialware, nagware, and bloated bloaty bloatness on consumer PCs.

All but one of my computers are HP--and none has this issue. Oh...wait...I wiped their preinstalled windows crap off of them as soon as they arrived and installed Linux. Never mind!

[whatthefunk]

I dont know why people put up with their operating system being filled with advertisements that make using the computer difficult. If your car suddenly stopped working so that some dodgy company could try to trick you into buying something, would you put up with it? I dont know why Microsoft allows OEMs to continue to do this...it makes their product look bad.

[SteveRiley]

I dont know why Microsoft allows OEMs to continue to do this...it makes their product look bad.

Surely you can imagine the vociferous bitching if Microsoft actually mandated what OEMs can and can't do with their own builds. Microsoft already has enough power. Although I can see the merits of your argument: a clean, standardized desktop.

Also: there is almost zero profit in selling hardware. The OEMs make their money essentially by selling "space" on the desktop to these third parties. In exchange for cash from them those parties, OEMs get to sell you PCs filled with crap and make a few bucks they'd otherwise lose every time a machine left the factory floor. Amazing! Not.

[GreyGeek]

GG, the obvious question is why didn't she/you install Kubuntu on it? Is she wrapped up in the M$ world, like with a specific program she can't do without--or THINKS she can't do without? That HP would've hummed like crazy running Linux.

She's a Windows/Apple fan because 1) she uses Windows at work and doesn't want to learn another OS. That my grandson defaults to Trusty doesn't seem to phase her, and 2) her boyfriend is an Apple fan so she switched from Android to iPhone. Now she can't afford an Apple computer.

.... Also: there is almost zero profit in selling hardware. The OEMs make their money essentially by selling "space" on the desktop to these third parties. In exchange for cash from them those parties, OEMs get to sell you PCs filled with crap and make a few bucks they'd otherwise lose every time a machine left the factory floor. Amazing! Not.

After the DOJ trial, which Microsoft "lost" and was forbidden to engage in contracts which (hidden by NDAs) restricted what other OS's an OEM could put on their machine IF they wanted to offer Windows, I gather that Microsoft took advantage of the razor thin margins by "rebating" OEMs for the ad costs if their ads featured Windows. Microsoft didn't demand that they not offer other OS's, but the OEMs got the message when those that did were not getting ad rebates, i.e., profits.

[Feathers McGraw]

If she spent $1K on the hardware, the problem was the crapware, and she was set on using Windows, why not buy a vanilla windows licence and do a fresh installation? The price would be small compared to the cost of the hardware.

[GreyGeek]

If she spent $1K on the hardware, the problem was the crapware, and she was set on using Windows, why not buy a vanilla windows licence and do a fresh installation? The price would be small compared to the cost of the hardware.

We're talking about Sally Sixpack here, not someone with even a smidgeon of technical knowledge about computers.

[SteveRiley]

Sally Sixpack

A six-pack on a chick? That frightens me.

[claydoh]

A six-pack on a chick? That frightens me.

But a chick with a 6 pack is the life of the party

[Feathers McGraw]

We're talking about Sally Sixpack here, not someone with even a smidgeon of technical knowledge about computers.

Fair enough, although I'm surprised she didn't ask her techie Dad to help! Was she scared you might install Kubuntu on the sly?