Systemd wins

[SteveRiley]

But alas, this whole thing looks from the outside to be more politically motivated than merit-related

On the merits, I'm in the systemd camp. After exploring it briefly in Arch and Fedora, I've come away impressed. It is so much easier to grok than init scripts and Upstart. Easy to grok means fewer mistakes and greater consistency. Admins will love this thing, once they get used to it.

Kinda like UEFI. Once you get used to it, you'll never want to go back to BIOS.

[Buddlespit]

But alas, this whole thing looks from the outside to be more politically motivated than merit-related, and the garbage seems to overwhelm the pros and cons of all the options Debian has. Hopefully they can just quickly rip the band-aid off the skin and just get on with it

https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte.../msg00390.html

[SteveRiley]

Russ Allberry has had one of the more level heads throughout the entire ordeal. Reading his emails is even soothing at times.

[dmeyer]

My general opinion is that this is a good move. I am all for diversity in the world of Linux but I do feel that certain core components should be standardized as X.Org become the default X11 windowing system. The less fragmentation we can have in core services the better portability will be. Its actually like my largest complain about GTK+ at the moment. Gnome 3, Unity and Cinnamon - the three biggest GTK+ desktops - are all slightly incompatible.

I am a huge fan of systemd and I actually really like the way it works. Its insanely fast, very simple and since first switching over to it I have never run into any issues. I've yet to find a truly good rebuttal against choosing systemd that is based on facts and rational reasoning. Systemd is surprisingly modular and although it seems to be cannibalizing other projects; is that not testament to its perceived merit by said projects?

I think the choice of systemd was inevitable but what stood out the most to was what SteveRiley highlighted - the way it was handled. Debian is one of the three most important distros (Debian, Fedora/Redhat Camp, Gentoo) and the way this entire discussion derailed was highly worrying as to the current structure of the Debian project.

Canonical and Debian have shared over the past few years a very important symbiotic relationship but recently I have become worried about Canonical's direction and its influence within the Debian project. Debian is a bureaucratic dinosaur. They need to adopt a more modern, dynamic and flexible organizational structure which still allows for the important democratic processes that make Debian great but don't make it slow, unwieldy and antiquated.

[GreyGeek]

https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte.../msg00390.html

A well reasoned and thought out presentation! Very impressive. Like he says, it sure beats the bias and conspiracy theories.

[bsniadajewski]

You'll be happy, SteveR, now that Ubuntu (and I guessing all its derivatives, including Kubuntu and Mint), will be going to systemd starting with the 14.10 release.

[lcorken]

Ubuntu switching to systemd? Wow, I was not expecting that. 14.10 seems optimistic to me though.

http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316

I expect they will want to bring systemd into Ubuntu as an option for developers as soon as it is reliably available in Debian, and as our default as soon as it offers a credible quality of service to match the existing init.

Ken.

[bsniadajewski]

I just read that over on FB (I'm following some tech sites on there, including Linux-related ones)

[MoonRise]

This one is...unhinged: https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte.../msg00376.html

Is he related to Dr. Seuss!!!!

[oshunluvr]

Is he related to Dr. Seuss!!!!

funniest thing I've read today! Thanks!

[SteveRiley]

You'll be happy, SteveR, now that Ubuntu (and I guessing all its derivatives, including Kubuntu and Mint), will be going to systemd starting with the 14.10 release.

Ubuntu switching to systemd? Wow, I was not expecting that. 14.10 seems optimistic to me though.

Holy crap, this blows my mind!

I would never have expected SABDFL to cave so quickly. Makes me wonder how the Upstart proponents feel now. They put extreme energy and emotion (eeee-literation, heh) into their arguments, probably never expecting that Canonical would abandon Upstart should systemd win. I bet those guys feel like they've been kicked into the gutter and over the cliff.

Does this set some sort of precedence, perhaps? Canonical abandons their own projects if Debian chooses an alternate path? What next -- will Canonical kill Mir when Debian switches from X to Wayland?

[kubicle]

The writing was on the wall.

The only sane move left was to consolidate.

I for one welcome systemd (even though I don't think it's perfect...but then again, what is)

[bsniadajewski]

Holy crap, this blows my mind!

I would never have expected SABDFL to cave so quickly. Makes me wonder how the Upstart proponents feel now. They put extreme energy and emotion (eeee-literation, heh) into their arguments, probably never expecting that Canonical would abandon Upstart should systemd win. I bet those guys feel like they've been kicked into the gutter and over the cliff.

Does this set some sort of precedence, perhaps? Canonical abandons their own projects if Debian chooses an alternate path? What next -- will Canonical kill Mir when Debian switches from X to Wayland?

Depends on if they could get Unity to work with Wayland decently or not. Else maybe adapt Cinnamon for PC's and Unity for everything slse (which would defeat the purpose of a single codebase across all platforms though)

[verndog]

...What next -- will Canonical kill Mir when Debian switches from X to Wayland?

That would be great.

[SteveRiley]

Depends on if they could get Unity to work with Wayland decently or not.

Unity and Mir are being developed under the assumption that they'll go together. Canonical has not, to my knowledge, envisioned scenarios in which Unity would work with another display server, or Mir would be used with another desktop environment.