News at nine: Canonical manages another PR nightmare

[dmeyer]

100% concur.

Debian stable offers old, and VERY STABLE software. OLD = STABLE. Sorry, that's just a kind of self-evident proposition. But you don't have to be limited by the version of KDE included with stable, if you want newer. NEWER = LESS STABLE. You pays your money, and you takes your chances.

I don't think older = more stable in all cases. At least with KDE newer has always tended to be more stable for me. KDE has stabilised as a whole very beautifully since 4.8 but I feel that 4.9 was a substantial improvement in stability especially with respect to Akonadi/Nepomuk and Kontact. On top of that, KDE 4.10 did a lot for the stability and performance of Nepomuk. Only with KDE 4.10 to 4.11 do I not see the usual noteworthy increase in stability but at the same time I did see a nice improvement in memory usage and Kwin has a few important bug fixes when it came to mulitple monitors. I think sometimes newer does mean more stable, but as a general rule of thumb I think your statement does hold true.

Another example of newer = more stable was Gnome in the early 3.x series. Each new version although it broke every customization and extension did as a whole improve stability a lot.

[dibl]

Sure, there are examples to the contrary of any "general rule of thumb". But, how many open bug reports are there against KDE 4.8.4?

I wll plead guilty to making (or attempting to make) my point with a glittering generality. We tend to value "stable" highly, but when considering the desirable attributes of productivity software, it is often the case that we would trade some stability for the improved features and functions of the newest released version.

[dmeyer]

Sure, there are examples to the contrary of any "general rule of thumb". But, how many open bug reports are there against KDE 4.8.4?

I wll plead guilty to making (or attempting to make) my point with a glittering generality. We tend to value "stable" highly, but when considering the desirable attributes of productivity software, it is often the case that we would trade some stability for the improved features and functions of the newest released version.

That's a good point but open bug report count does not always give an accurate account of stability because if you see 70+% of resolved bugs this is the outcome: "Bug fixed in next version." or "Bug fixed in Master." Therefore that metric isn't very good as almost all the resolutions are only applicable in the next version.

Still, I think you are getting me wrong. I am saying that newer KDE versions are more stable than older ones. I am not saying that 4.8.x is unstable - just less stable than 4.11.x.

[GreyGeek]

......We should also understand the velocity at which these various derivatives move;.....

A similar "velocity" is demonstrated by what I've called in the past the "Window of compatibility" that slides along the timeline. The leading edge of the window is where new kernels establish compatibility with recently released hardware. The trailing edge of the window is where old hardware falls out of compatibility because kernels that supported them are no longer supported and are replaced by newer kernels. The width of the window depends on the hardware involved and its popularity.

[sithlord48]

Kubuntu has one thing i can't seam to get (from the repos) in debian MUON!

Apper is almost unuseable to me because it uses the "software center" model instead of the "package manager" model. basicly i want to be able to select more then one package for install / removal at a time.

im using siduction/aptosid with kdeNext enabled i've recently installed on my netbook and other then a few things not installed by default, like NetworkManager is not installed by default so no nice panel icon for my wireless , there is a tool and was easily able to get network manger working . but what im missing the most is muon i have to use synaptic and even the synaptic in debian is a bit different then one here in ubuntu i can't figure out how to add a quick search (filter) to the tool bar.

its mostly little things like having to enable sudo for your users and having a Root account (Btw anyone know how i can disable root account>?)

[dibl]

... what im missing the most is muon i have to use synaptic ....

You can probably get by with using synaptic to install user packages, although that is not recommended by the siduction developers. But don't use it for dist-upgrades -- you could bork your system completely if some types of system packages are updated.

its mostly little things like having to enable sudo for your users and having a Root account (Btw anyone know how i can disable root account>?)

Well, you don't HAVE to enable sudo for your users -- right? Debian is designed to let root do the administrative tasks, and users to do their user tasks. You're kind of fighting nature to try to make Debian behave like *buntu, in that regard.

However, that and related subjects are covered here, but I don't think it is possible "disable" root entirely (it is not really disabled in *buntu, btw). With a secure root password, why would that be a desirable thing to do?

[sithlord48]

synaptic i really would only use to find package names mostly i always do updates via apt-get. muon is more useful for the others whos machines i maintain.

i didn't have to enable sudo but i did because for some reason i always forget to su. on a side note why install sudo if they don't put a user on the list? if i have to manually add users to the group why even install it by default?

the main reason i would want to disable root is because its a known account for people to brute force (if a net facing service) . then again most dont' allow root login anyway so maybe its not important to disable it

oh i forgot the other BIG difference is that i had to install nano for editing . why cause im just used to nano (im sure that there is a cli text app included by default maybe vi or emacs?)

[dibl]

For some multi-user situations, giving users sudo permission is a perfectly reasonable thing to do -- Debian wiki has a "how to".

I forgot whether nano is installed by default, or not. I always install it -- my old brain cannot memorize the vi keyboard and with nano that is not necessary.

BTW, the debian packagesearch package is a pretty handy way to look up packages and their capabilities, prior to installing anything.

[sithlord48]

wanting muon is really more for the people whos machines i support not all of them are happy to install via the cli.. althought i bet apper would work good for them i just don't like its interface.

ill have to look in to packagesearch too..

thanks dibl

[SteveRiley]

glittering generality

What a deliciously evil term

[GreyGeek]

.... I forgot whether nano is installed by default, or not. I always install it -- my old brain cannot memorize the vi keyboard and with nano that is not necessary....

I exhibit that "old brain" syndrom as well, which is why I gave up on vi and emacs, and use a mouse instead of just the keyboard. By the way, while using the cli I've found that mc (midnight commander) is dolphin for bash. It also has a nano-type editor.

[kubicle]

While a trademark holder may need to react to obvious trademark infringements (it's not necessary to react to all infringements) to avoid abandonment, reaction is not necessary when there is no infringement such as non-commercial (which seems to be the case here) or nominal fair use.

The EFF seems to agree with me :
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/11/trademark-law-does-not-require-companies-tirelessly-censor-internet