Steam Contributions to Linux

[Roguehorse]

I just finished watching the interview video where Linus addresses various questions at LinuxCon + CloudOpen Europe. If my Java class and overtime at work hadn't been kicking my butt, I would have seen this sooner.

On of the questions asked (usually is) was what would Linus like to see happen for the Linux community. Of course, most of us know the answer, which is to see less internal fighting between distributions and more of a collaborative effort between us rather than distributions fighting among each other about who's strategy is right and who is wrong. Among the details, the release of Steam bringing games to the Linux desktop has been a big controversy lately that is very intriguing and could bring a new slurry of users who would rather NOT use Windows but, feel forced to since the games they want to play will not fly on Linux.

What are people's thoughts on Steams technology and being able to integrate this into the various distributions to attract a larger user base? I personally don't have the time to play games much anymore, but I know the market for desktop games is still pretty high and being able to do this on a competitive level to the proprietary distributions would improve the overall appeal to desktop game players who are not as "geeky" as Linux users. Lets face it, as Linux users we do make sacrifices to remove MS from our lives and gaming on the desktop is one of those areas.

[GreyGeek]

I bought a few Steam games and played around, but I'm not into games of gratuitous violence. None that I played were violent, but none from Steam were very interesting, either.
Guess I'm getting too old to be impressed by a 2D space ship that allows you to move crew around to fix problems that arise. Still have the binaries on my HD.
Will I buy another game? Doubtful. Most were marginally done, lacked good documentation on how to play it, etc....

I played a lot with FlightSim, which is a fairly good flight simulator, and free. Micropolis (Lin-City) was nice. So was the Billiards game. The chess game always cleaned my clock, and I was a pretty good chess player in my day. Torcs is a nice 3D road race game. My grandkids enjoyed Bubbles and TuxRacer when they were younger. I still play cards games and sometimes Mahjongg and Ksudoku.

[claydoh]

Distros don't have to physically offer steam to users (as part of a default installation, for example), since the user can install it on their own. This sort of thing allows those who prefer to keep as much non-free software as possible still can do so without having to rip stuff out of their fave distro.

I think Steam will likely be an optional item on most distros due to this, much like most proprietary software is not installed by default, but is made easily available. I do not know what Steam's licensing is, so this means squat if they do not allow just anyone to packages packages for their software other than themselves.

I think that currently, outside of perhaps a niche distro, most if not all distros that can provide Steam will, through whatever package management tools they use. Perhaps highlighting it, but still an optional thing.

[Roguehorse]

@GreyGeek,

When I "did" have time for games, I was playing whatever I caught my fancy that would run through Chrome. As my son is a little older now (3-1/2), every once-in-a-while we will play something together on our Android tablet but, for the most part school keeps me pretty busy when I'm at home. Or I should elaborate, between school and various discussion forums.

[Roguehorse]

Distros don't have to physically offer steam to users (as part of a default installation, for example), since the user can install it on their own. This sort of thing allows those who prefer to keep as much non-free software as possible still can do so without having to rip stuff out of their fave distro.

I think Steam will likely be an optional item on most distros due to this, much like most proprietary software is not installed by default, but is made easily available. I do not know what Steam's licensing is, so this means squat if they do not allow just anyone to packages packages for their software other than themselves.


I think that currently, outside of perhaps a niche distro, most if not all distros that can provide Steam will, through whatever package management tools they use. Perhaps highlighting it, but still an optional thing.

I agree that the licensing may be an issue as it will depend on how "community friendly" they decide to do things. It would suck if they locked up the tech to simply keep to themselves as an "edge" over other distributions or however they choose to market their tech. To be honest, I have only scratched the surface of researching what they are offering however, I ran across their announcement a while back that they were focusing energy into creating a platform not just for play but dev on Linux platforms. I found it intriguing from the discussion forum that with the amount of constant innovation in the Linux community, Linus happened to notice what Steam is producing and correlated this tech to larger adoption on the desktop forefront.

I am definitely one who is on board with seeing more people adopt Linux on the desktop as I believe people should have choices and those choices should not be laden with vendor "lock in" or proprietary licensing. However, the technology offered as an alternative needs to be very easy to both use and understand for the "non-technical" user. An example is the person who has difficulty with understanding how to open another "tab" on their browser as compared to opening multiple instances because all they understand is to continue to "click the icon".

[claydoh]

Nah, Valve seems to "get it", at least from what I have seen so far. They didn't care that anyone could take the Ubuntu debs and make things work on other distros, for example. Getting more and more games ported to linux not only helps them, it makes it better for us as well.

[OT]
Still, being Captain Obvious for a second, this is mostly non-free software and goes against many people's reasons for using Linux. Luckily, games are one area where the f/oss community seems to have a bit of and "exception to the rules" attitude.

Think about that.


[devils-advocate]
Mark Shuttleworth, without getting into the right or wrong of some of his statements and actions, gets jumped on and beat up mercilessly for the appearance of the possibility of corrupting Linux with something non-free, maybe.


Steam actually delivers software that sells you closed-source software that is installed it on your computer, right now. And plans to distribute an OS with this built in. No one jumps all over that and beats Gabe up over it.
[/devils-advocate]
[/OT]

[Buddlespit]

I've been looking at Steam for a few months now, since I like to game and I don't do Windows. I really would like to see the games I play show up in the steam menu. Currently, of the three games I like, I can get two of them to play pretty well thru wine and I can get the one game my wife plays to run thru wine, but not her addon manager. I don't think game manufacturers are going to start porting their games to Linux unless they can cover the costs of the porting and customer support. And with the total Linux userbase being at about 2.5% of total computer users, with maybe a two thirds of those dual-booting, I can't see it as being 'cost effective'. So we won't be seeing 'Battlefields 4' showing up anytime soon.

[GreyGeek]

@GreyGeek,
.....As my son is a little older now (3-1/2), every once-in-a-while we will play something together on our Android tablet but, for the most part school keeps me pretty busy when I'm at home. Or I should elaborate, between school and various discussion forums.

Ah, 3 /1/2 !!! He's just entering the fun age. He will be taking more and more of your time as he gets older, and you won't mind a bit. My two children were born while I was in college and grad school. They are now close to 50 but my wife and I still consider them to be older versions of our "kids".

I forgot to mention one game that I play a LOT! Minecraft. My two grandsons and I are having a blast with it. I set up a Minecraft server on this laptop and they connect from home, after school or on weekends, or here when they come to to visit. Minecraft is addictive. If the truth were told I'd play it anyway, without using them for an excuse!

[Feathers McGraw]

If Rome: Total War (1/2) was available on Kubuntu, then I think I'd be able to say with confidence that I'd be VERY unlikely to use Windows on my personal machine ever again, and would remove it.

I'd love to be able to remove Windows completely and have just a few friendly Linux distros on the hard drive, because they all play nice with each other!

RE the freedom thing, if you start with the assumption that you are going to play the game somehow, then running a non-free game on a free OS has got to be better than running a completely non-free OS! It's a step in the right direction.

Feathers

[claydoh]

RE the freedom thing, if you start with the assumption that you are going to play the game somehow, then running a non-free game on a free OS has got to be better than running a completely non-free OS! It's a step in the right direction.

Feathers

yes and no, actually - it could be seen to open the door to expanding non-free stuff. That is why it probably should be one's choice and not included in a default install. 5, 10 years ago it might have been a step that way, but as Linux is a mature base now, it is less true - Android might be considered as an example. Closed hardware and software etc etc.

I say this as someone who has had a steam account since 2005, and has never run it in a Windows environment

[Feathers McGraw]

That is why it probably should be one's choice and not included in a default install.

I agree with what you just said...I missed that you were talking about whether or not it's ok to install it by default. I don't think any non-free stuff should be installed by default.

I think having it easily available to install if you make the conscious decision to do so is a good thing for the reasons I said initially.

Feathers

[Roguehorse]

Yes, he's becoming quite the handful as he climbs up on the counters and uses chairs to get into things he knows he shouldn't. He's fairly well mannered though and since I have been in school for the last 2 years, he understands when I say "Daddy is busy working" as he sees me tapping away at the keyboard all afternoon, nights and through the weekends.

Funny story,

My niece (16) walks by my desk and looks at what I'm working on. I have my screen full of NetBeans and I'm working on scribbling out a project for school. She stares at it for a moment and says "That look boring". I laugh and say "That is what I call fun".

[Roguehorse]

@Feathers,

I agree as well. Proprietary material should not be installed by default however, I don't see it as "bad" should someone decide to install it for their own use. Linux distros should be just as comparable as Windows with no exceptions. When we reach that point where it is simply a matter of preference for anyone to choose a Linux OS or a Windows OS as each can perform the same functions and interface with the same 3rd part software and hardware, then we will see real significant market share. Steam may provide that, I don't know, but without being able to show it off in stores or on TV will make it more difficult to get the word out to the public of "come see what WE can do"!

[Roguehorse]

Nah, Valve seems to "get it", at least from what I have seen so far. They didn't care that anyone could take the Ubuntu debs and make things work on other distros, for example. Getting more and more games ported to linux not only helps them, it makes it better for us as well.

[OT]
Still, being Captain Obvious for a second, this is mostly non-free software and goes against many people's reasons for using Linux. Luckily, games are one area where the f/oss community seems to have a bit of and "exception to the rules" attitude.

Think about that.


[devils-advocate]
Mark Shuttleworth, without getting into the right or wrong of some of his statements and actions, gets jumped on and beat up mercilessly for the appearance of the possibility of corrupting Linux with something non-free, maybe.


Steam actually delivers software that sells you closed-source software that is installed it on your computer, right now. And plans to distribute an OS with this built in. No one jumps all over that and beats Gabe up over it.
[/devils-advocate]
[/OT]

Yes, it does seem like a double standard doesn't it? On the other hand, it gives us a view of our "vocal" age demographics; young people with no income who like to spend a lot of time playing games? Perhaps it is the reason why we can see so much Linux domination in industry and not as much on the desktop. Senior developers are using it as a tool which they can modify and implement in their work environment but, when it comes to their home computing they prefer to use Windows as it is already there and they know how to use it nor do they "really" care about the proliferation of Linux based desktops in the home.

[GreyGeek]

Good luck on your education, Rougehorse!
College, especially grad school was the most fun and rewarding period in my life. If I could have afforded it I would have become a professional grad student, or, gone on to a PhD and do research. But, with two kids and a wife who was getting tired of the school routine, the pressure was on to get out and get a job. Fortunately, the JC I first attended offered me a job teaching science, which is even more fun than coding.