I didn't realize we're a bunch of commies

[GreyGeek]

You forgot Obama. He's as deserving to be on that list as Bush ever was.

Given his campaign rhetoric I was expecting Pres. Obama to reverse GWB's attacks on the Bill of Rights, especially the 4th Amendment. Instead, he continued and even strengthened the attacks, and made certain Executive Orders even worse. So, if GWB deserves to be on the "Worst Presidents" list, and I believe he does, then Pres. Obama more so. Especially after SEVEN extremely serious, Constitution threatening scandals, any one of which would have brought down a standing president were it not for the media covering his backside. After the White House attacks on James Rosen and Fox New, it is laughable now to see the other media complaining about being ignored or even excluded from briefing, and having to compete against the White House propaganda output. Especially the photographs and event descriptions.

[Feathers McGraw]

Given his campaign rhetoric I was expecting Pres. Obama to reverse GWB's attacks on the Bill of Rights, especially the 4th Amendment. Instead, he continued and even strengthened the attacks, and made certain Executive Orders even worse. So, if GWB deserves to be on the "Worst Presidents" list, and I believe he does, then Pres. Obama more so. Especially after SEVEN extremely serious, Constitution threatening scandals, any one of which would have brought down a standing president were it not for the media covering his backside. After the White House attacks on James Rosen and Fox New, it is laughable now to see the other media complaining about being ignored or even excluded from briefing, and having to compete against the White House propaganda output. Especially the photographs and event descriptions.

Out of interest, what has he done? I've picked up a few things from American tech news companies and Slashdot but I could use some schooling

[SteveRiley]

One example: greatly expanding the use of attack drones and seeking legal authority to kill any person on Earth at any time for any reason, even American citizens on American soil.

Another example: strong-arming the signatories to the Trans-Pacific Partnership into accepting much harsher penalties for violations of intellectual property laws than are reasonable.

Yet another example: prosecuting individuals for violating the Defense of Marriage Act "because it's the law," even though as a Senator he opposed the law. Waiting until there was enough popular opinion for same-sex marriage before opposing DOMA while in office.

And yet another example: caving in to the powerful insurance lobby to give them a health care plan containing original Republican ideas and guaranteeing insane insurance company profits, thus abandoning his promise to permit a single-payer public option to compete with same.

You'd be hard-pressed to find someone more liberal, progressive, lefty, etc. than me. And I think our current president is a disastrous abomination, a national embarrassment, and a complete failure. I regret voting for him.

[Tom_ZeCat]

Well... maybe. It would have to be negotiated, I guess. Here's the video, where Annabel Goldie (former leader of the scottish conservatives, now a life member of the House of Lords) says something like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9KuE4KMhsY&t=37m50s






That... is horrific. Surely you can be loyal to Canada and not loyal to the queen. I don't have anything against the queen as a person, but I wouldn't swear an oath of loyalty to her out of principle. It's absurd that we don't have to swear an oath of loyalty to her in England, but you do if you want to live in Canada!!

I did have to laugh one time when the Queen criticized Maggie Thatcher (an awful Prime Minister IMO) . I'd have to look up to see what it was over. It's been a long time. It may have been over support for then-Aparteid South Africa or it may have been over her notorious poll tax. Thatcher basically told her to shut up and leave the governing to her, but I remember thinking the Queen was right and I was glad she put egg on Thatcher's face.

[Tom_ZeCat]

One example: greatly expanding the use of attack drones and seeking legal authority to kill any person on Earth at any time for any reason, even American citizens on American soil.

Another example: strong-arming the signatories to the Trans-Pacific Partnership into accepting much harsher penalties for violations of intellectual property laws than are reasonable.

Yet another example: prosecuting individuals for violating the Defense of Marriage Act "because it's the law," even though as a Senator he opposed the law. Waiting until there was enough popular opinion for same-sex marriage before opposing DOMA while in office.

And yet another example: caving in to the powerful insurance lobby to give them a health care plan containing original Republican ideas and guaranteeing insane insurance company profits, thus abandoning his promise to permit a single-payer public option to compete with same.

You'd be hard-pressed to find someone more liberal, progressive, lefty, etc. than me. And I think our current president is a disastrous abomination, a national embarrassment, and a complete failure. I regret voting for him.

I'm most pissed about the drone strikes. Some of them have actually been bombings of weddings. They don't make us safer and they kill innocent people. They were wrong when Bush did them and they're wrong now with Obama doing them. It's frustrating that both parties are crooked enough to support them. If you don't like them, there's no one you can vote in to change it. That's more evidence that the United States is a plutocracy, not a democracy.

The ACA might work out after all. Vermont has passed a single-payer health care bill, which the ACA allows them to opt out to use. It looks like some other states are not far behind: California, Pennsylvania, and Minnesota. Single-payer could catch on state by state. Plus, the ACA at least prohibits the most obscene insurance abuses like recision, the dirty little game of taking a person's premiums for years and years, only to cancel his policy when he gets sick. The ACA's not great, and I would have preferred the law Harry S. Truman proposed, but it is better than what we had before, which was basically total chaos.

[Feathers McGraw]

Thanks for the explanation Steve!

If I had to name one thing I'm most proud of about the UK, I'd probably say the National Health Service.

It's a recognition of the fact that whatever your financial situation now, you still have the same potential to contribute to society in the future. Everyone has a right to good healthcare; you shouldn't be left to fend for yourself if you're on a low income.

Also, the last thing you need if you have a long term illness is more money worries.

Attempt #1 was never going to be perfect. Instead of scrapping it, stick with it and make continuous improvements!

[richb]

This is not a defense of the current administration, but a general comment. I think an overwhelming number of historians would scoff at listing recent Presidents in a best or worst list. Even though they do participate in doing so. And even beyond that evaluating their administrations as good or bad. There is an advantage in looking back from a future time.

That is not to say opinions about current policy should not be discussed and evaluated.

[Tom_ZeCat]

This is not a defense of the current administration, but a general comment. I think an overwhelming number of historians would scoff at listing recent Presidents in a best or worst list. Even though they do participate in doing so. And even beyond that evaluating their administrations as good or bad. There is an advantage in looking back from a future time.

That is not to say opinions about current policy should not be discussed and evaluated.

That's the reason Obama is not on my worst list. Sitting presidents are exempt from it since we need time for reflection before we can properly evaluate a president's performance. Every single sitting president is called "worst ever" by someone. George W. Bush has been out of office for about 5 years now. I think that's enough time for reflection. By almost every measure, he seems a failure. I would be very surprised if he weren't judged harshly by history. You never know for sure, though.

History has eased up on Richard Nixon some. As you know, he resigned in disgrace for his crooked behavior. However, my opinion of him, and of many others, is that he was a mixed bag. He was a tragic character offering some good and bad. You can't ignore the fact that he achieved detente with the Soviet Union. That was a big deal, considering how hostile relations had been and the threat of a nuclear war. He opened up a relationship with formerly isolationist China. He founded the EPA, and his environmental record was quite good. He proposed a far better universal health care plan than the current ACA. It's a shame it wasn't passed.

Of course, he illegally bombed Cambodia, escalating the Vietnam War, and he illegally spied on his political rivals, which is what eventually brought him down. And he started our absurd, costly, and infamous War on Drugs. There was much not to like about Nixon, but he definitely was not a one-dimensional crook. Immediately after he left office, I'm sure he would have been branded "worst President ever," but I think history proves that not to be the case. He was a mix of good and bad. One wonders what might have been if he hadn't been so paranoid.

[richb]

@Tom_ZeCat

Well said and I totally agree. How bad is it that a President has to resign. Yet Nixon is far from being at the top of a worst list. As you said ,his administration was a mixed bag. Maybe five years is a bit of a short time to evaluate, I was thinking more twenty years. However that is a minor quibble on timing. Another example is Harry Truman, who in the immediate years after leaving office was not well thought of, but has grown in reputation.

[Tom_ZeCat]

@Tom_ZeCat

Well said and I totally agree. How bad is it that a President has to resign. Yet Nixon is far from being at the top of a worst list. As you said ,his administration was a mixed bag. Maybe five years is a bit of a short time to evaluate, I was thinking more twenty years. However that is a minor quibble on timing. Another example is Harry Truman, who in the immediate years after leaving office was not well thought of, but has grown in reputation.

Very true. Truman had the lowest approval rating of any President at the time he left office, even lower than that of GW Bush. Much of that was because of racism. A lot of people were furious that he desegregated the military. Today that seems an absurd reason to not like him. We're all used to an integrated military.

[woodsmoke]

I can 'member when Newsweek published a ten page, or so, screed against the amorphous "right wing rednecks" about them thinking there were black helicopters, spying on us, and guys with silenced machine guns.

Guess they weren't wrong about the facts, merely the time frame.

woodsmoke