OpenSUSE 12.3 KDE - I like it

[dmeyer]

Typically Steve
Tumbleweed is slower to update kde than if you use the OBS repos on a standard setup
You will of course get kernel updates that you wouldn't on a standard install (though this requires you manually install graphics drivers with every new kernel update)
Tumbleweed is not for the noobs, that's for sure.

The graphics drivers are easy to work around. Just set up dkms... At least that's what I did on my Tumbleweed install. Though I ended up switching back to standard after a while. I prefer the base distro with the KDE Release 4.9/4.10/4.11 repos. For apps I absolutely have to have the latest of I just add the offical OBS repos.

[kernelbasher]

Though I ended up switching back to standard after a while. I prefer the base distro with the KDE Release 4.9/4.10/4.11 repos. For apps I absolutely have to have the latest of I just add the offical OBS repos.

Totally agree with you

[SteveRiley]

I tried OpenSUSE 12.3 for about a week and in general everything was working fine. I wanted to remove Firefox so I attempted to use the software management tool in YaST however, when I selected firefox it wanted to replace it with Thunderbird along with a couple of other packages. I then looked at using the command line tool zypper to remove Firefox which it did without wanting to replace it with Thunderbird.

The openSUSE packagers have created a curious dependency. The installed KDE integration package requires either Firefox or Thunderbird, so removing one will trigger installing the other. The solution is to remove the package mozilla-kde4-integration.

[SteveRiley]

The graphics drivers are easy to work around. Just set up dkms... At least that's what I did on my Tumbleweed install. Though I ended up switching back to standard after a while. I prefer the base distro with the KDE Release 4.9/4.10/4.11 repos. For apps I absolutely have to have the latest of I just add the offical OBS repos.

Following this procedure, can you install once and then never do a system-wide OS upgrade again? I am really starting to dislike that. Although I've personally never experienced breakage, do-release-upgrade still gives me the heebie jeebies. I smoke a bowl before each one It's legal here!

[dmeyer]

The openSUSE packagers have created a curious dependency. The installed KDE integration package requires either Firefox or Thunderbird, so removing one will trigger installing the other. The solution is to remove the package mozilla-kde4-integration.

Wow. That's a serious package management flaw but personally I would never uninstall Firefox. I always prefer to have at least Firefox and Webkit based browser on my system for when a web app doesn't work properly under a specific browser.

openSUSE has some really silly defaults. For example, by default it wants to install a million packages after install unless you uncheck "Install recommended packages" of which many are just a waste of space.

[chris2kari]

Wow. That's a serious package management flaw but personally I would never uninstall Firefox. I always prefer to have at least Firefox and Webkit based browser on my system for when a web app doesn't work properly under a specific browser.

openSUSE has some really silly defaults. For example, by default it wants to install a million packages after install unless you uncheck "Install recommended packages" of which many are just a waste of space.

1) No, that's not a package management flaw, that's a nuisance choice made by a packager. I have seen the same nonsense on Debian distro's.
2) I have OpenSUSE 12.3 running here on 3 machines and the default is not to install recommends.

Chris

[chris2kari]

After a lot of trialling of Linux distro's I found that I strongly prefer KDE or Razor-Qt based distro's.
I expect an up to date applications stack & I demand stability. (I cant afford the time to keep reinstalling to clean up borkage.)

Centos? laughably out of date applications stack & very much server oriented in any event.
Debian? Applications stack too far behind & the claims of stability are a bit exaggerated in my experience.
Kubuntu 13.04 + KDE 4.11? Not a good idea IMHO. Too many strange app crashes & strange freezes (especially with Steam on 64 bit systems).
Sabayon KDE? Buggy.
Fedora 19 KDE? Unstable.
Manjaro 0.8.7.1 KDE? Insanely fast but unstable.
etc etc..

I am determined to avoid 64 bit systems. 32 bit PAE makes more sense since many of the big ticket applications (Steam, Skype etc) are still only 32 bit and this keeps package management complexity as simple as possible. (Yes I know in theory 64 bit is faster but on a modern machine the difference is negligible for most desktop tasks.)

In near desperation I tried OpenSUSE 12.3..
It's an enterprise distro so some hoop jumping to install but very polished & highly configurable from GUI.
It's the ONLY Linux distro that I know of that specifically has a DESKTOP optimised kernel available to be installed if you so choose.
With this kernel my desktop machines are now running cooler than any other distro's I have ever previously tried. CPU is very quiet.
Memory usage about 300Mb, gosh thats low for KDE compared to all the others..
Boots fast.
Applications stack quite current - just don't expect the vast depth of Debian/Ubuntu.
Stability? Hallelujah!!! Finally a KDE distro that just works fast & smooth hour after hour, day after day with no app crashes/freezes.
My only gripe is finding rpm's of newly launched app's as they appear. Ubuntu .deb's are becoming the defacto

So far OpenSUSE 12.3 beats everything I've tried for stability, but I'd love to have the access to ubuntu package availablity... tough call.
How is Kubuntu 12.0.4.3 for day to day stability guy's? Honestly?

Chris

[GreyGeek]

....
My only gripe is finding rpm's of newly launched app's as they appear. Ubuntu .deb's are becoming the defacto

So far OpenSUSE 12.3 beats everything I've tried for stability, but I'd love to have the access to ubuntu package availablity... tough call.
How is Kubuntu 12.0.4.3 for day to day stability guy's? Honestly?

Chris

I did a fresh install of 12.04.3 about two weeks ago. It's ath9k module still won't drive my Atheros AR9462 Wireless Network Adapter without disconnecting every 3 or 4 minutes, forcing me to issue "sudo service network-manager restart", but other than that my eth0 is solid and I have had no other problems. I never reinstalled Bumblebee because the nouvoue driver is pushing Stellarium at 50-60 fps (optimus never gave over 30). Google-Earth won't run without crashing, but that's not Kubuntu's problem.

I ran SuSE from Sept of 1998 until Novell bought it (and I switched to Mandrake-Mandriva). I, too, found the lack of rpm packages limiting. RPMBone and other resources are not always vetted, either. Converting deb packages to rpm isn't without pitfall and failures, especially on bigger or specialized apps.

I moved to Kubuntu (and deb packaging) on a lark in Feb of 2009 when they released the Alpha of 9.04, because it featured the new KDE 4.0 desktop, which Mandriva said they wouldn't switch to for another year. At the time I had problems with 3D running Stellarium at anything faster than 3 or 4 fps and was working with the xorg developers as a tester. When booted the Alph of 9.04 it chose the i915 driver, instead of the i815, and Stellarium was lightening fast again. I've never left.

IF I ever leave Kubuntu it will not be for a distro based on RPM packages.

[dmeyer]

1) No, that's not a package management flaw, that's a nuisance choice made by a packager. I have seen the same nonsense on Debian distro's.
2) I have OpenSUSE 12.3 running here on 3 machines and the default is not to install recommends.

Chris

Oh I agree that it was probably poorly packaged but I referred to package management as more of an ecosystem rather than the specific software that installs and removes packages. At least zypper makes it easy for you to override stuff if you so wish. Also install recommends is the default setting on a fresh install if it was done from the live disc and not an install dvd. Don't think I don't like openSUSE. Personally I love it and it is my default distro (though I usually recommend Kubuntu for new users because this forum is exceptional.)

After a lot of trialling of Linux distro's I found that I strongly prefer KDE or Razor-Qt based distro's.
I expect an up to date applications stack & I demand stability. (I cant afford the time to keep reinstalling to clean up borkage.)

Centos? laughably out of date applications stack & very much server oriented in any event.
Debian? Applications stack too far behind & the claims of stability are a bit exaggerated in my experience.
Kubuntu 13.04 + KDE 4.11? Not a good idea IMHO. Too many strange app crashes & strange freezes (especially with Steam on 64 bit systems).
Sabayon KDE? Buggy.
Fedora 19 KDE? Unstable.
Manjaro 0.8.7.1 KDE? Insanely fast but unstable.
etc etc..

I am determined to avoid 64 bit systems. 32 bit PAE makes more sense since many of the big ticket applications (Steam, Skype etc) are still only 32 bit and this keeps package management complexity as simple as possible. (Yes I know in theory 64 bit is faster but on a modern machine the difference is negligible for most desktop tasks.)

In near desperation I tried OpenSUSE 12.3..
It's an enterprise distro so some hoop jumping to install but very polished & highly configurable from GUI.
It's the ONLY Linux distro that I know of that specifically has a DESKTOP optimised kernel available to be installed if you so choose.
With this kernel my desktop machines are now running cooler than any other distro's I have ever previously tried. CPU is very quiet.
Memory usage about 300Mb, gosh thats low for KDE compared to all the others..
Boots fast.
Applications stack quite current - just don't expect the vast depth of Debian/Ubuntu.
Stability? Hallelujah!!! Finally a KDE distro that just works fast & smooth hour after hour, day after day with no app crashes/freezes.
My only gripe is finding rpm's of newly launched app's as they appear. Ubuntu .deb's are becoming the defacto

So far OpenSUSE 12.3 beats everything I've tried for stability, but I'd love to have the access to ubuntu package availablity... tough call.
How is Kubuntu 12.0.4.3 for day to day stability guy's? Honestly?

Chris

I'm glad you have fallen in love with openSUSE. It truly is one of the great Linux distributions. Kubuntu 12.04.x is not my recommended Kubuntu distro because of the massive improvements found in KDE in the 4.9, 4.10 and 4.11 releases. I personally found 12.10 great but a large number of our community ran into issues with it. 13.04 is nice enough but it is subject to the new shorter support cycle which is a bummer.

For more package availability you really should look at the OBS. It has as many packages as Ubuntu/Debian. I have never needed a package for openSUSE and not been able to find it. Also, remember that Debian/Ubuntu also splits certain packages where other distros might keep them together also creating the illusion of more packages. That being said, I do understand what you mean by debs being the de facto distributed package.

[NickStone]

The beta for OpenSUSE 13.1 is out and Mr. Oshunluvr (ocean lover) might be interested to know that BTRFS will be included with only the safe options in BTRFS set up by default. More news here http://news.opensuse.org/2013/09/19/...1-beta-is-out/

[chris2kari]

Oh I agree that it was probably poorly packaged but I referred to package management as more of an ecosystem rather than the specific software that installs and removes packages. At least zypper makes it easy for you to override stuff if you so wish. Also install recommends is the default setting on a fresh install if it was done from the live disc and not an install dvd. Don't think I don't like openSUSE. Personally I love it and it is my default distro (though I usually recommend Kubuntu for new users because this forum is exceptional.)



I'm glad you have fallen in love with openSUSE. It truly is one of the great Linux distributions. Kubuntu 12.04.x is not my recommended Kubuntu distro because of the massive improvements found in KDE in the 4.9, 4.10 and 4.11 releases. I personally found 12.10 great but a large number of our community ran into issues with it. 13.04 is nice enough but it is subject to the new shorter support cycle which is a bummer.

For more package availability you really should look at the OBS. It has as many packages as Ubuntu/Debian. I have never needed a package for openSUSE and not been able to find it. Also, remember that Debian/Ubuntu also splits certain packages where other distros might keep them together also creating the illusion of more packages. That being said, I do understand what you mean by debs being the de facto distributed package.

Yep OBS is great. Honestly It's dead easy to compile software PROVIDED you can get the author to cough up the info on what dependencies they assumed.

I'd love to learn how to make rpm's for OpenSUSE. I'm sure it can't be that hard for small to average apps.


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[SteveRiley]

The one thing about openSUSE that I can't figure out is how dog-slow package management is. Maybe it's just YaST, but even installing one little package just seems to take way too long.

[chris2kari]

The one thing about openSUSE that I can't figure out is how dog-slow package management is. Maybe it's just YaST, but even installing one little package just seems to take way too long.

I have found it more or less ok on three different machines here (the very first update after install seems to take a while while it does 'stuff').

I have been very pleased with finding solutions to glitches in OpenSUSE.
If you hit a search engine with your query & specify OpenSUSE 12.3 (for example) you almost always get back a simple clear solution/explanation either direct from OpenSUSE/SUSE wiki etc or their Forum or a good hit on a third party blog. In general I have spent far less time on searching for specific info for OpenSUSE. Other distro's frequently give me either dense technicalese or rambling vague/wrong stuff.

Have you looked up this phenomena?

Chris

[dmeyer]

The one thing about openSUSE that I can't figure out is how dog-slow package management is. Maybe it's just YaST, but even installing one little package just seems to take way too long.

Disable the automatic repo refresh. It makes a huge difference. Admittedly, zypper is in my opinion not the fastest package manager but it is not noticeably slower compared to apt-get or even aptitude. It is a lot lighter on bandwidth though due to delta rpms. Delta rpms do have the advantage of being tiny compared to a full package but do take a little longer to apply.

[chris2kari]

Disable the automatic repo refresh. It makes a huge difference. Admittedly, zypper is in my opinion not the fastest package manager but it is not noticeably slower compared to apt-get or even aptitude. It is a lot lighter on bandwidth though due to delta rpms. Delta rpms do have the advantage of being tiny compared to a full package but do take a little longer to apply.

Interesting.. not needed if done recently obviously. Worth trying.
Zipper seems to be more sophisticated, or at least the sophisticated functionality is more accessible.
Delta's are great feature & long overdue in other distro's. Arch linux has plans to introduce it.


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