Yet another Windows rant, A.K.A.: How can anyone use that crap?

[oshunluvr]

My 75 year-old mother needed a new computer to run her beloved SimCity as the newly released version's minimum requirements were well above her Dell XPS 210. So I found her an adequate Acer desktop model for less than $600 and she picked it up yesterday morning. Now when I say adequate, it has an AMD A10-5700 and Radeon HD 7470 video, a 2TB hd, and 12 - count em' 12 - gigs of RAM. I searched and found this model partly because it also came with Windows 7 64bit rather than Windows 8 (a whole 'nother rant ). This is supposedly the "best" version of Windows ever. Well, "best" is a totally relative term. To complete her upgrade she also bought a very nice 24" Viewsonic HD monitor.

So, last night I went over to get her new computer set up and on-line and such. Pulled it out of the box, plugged everything in: the rather cheap Acer was very well done IMO. Nice hidden dvd-rom behind a dust-door, tasteful clean lines on the case, built-in multi-format card reader, tons of USB 3 and 2 ports, etc. Turned that sucker on and it took about 20 minutes to start up - Initial Windows setup and such - not unreasonable IMO.

Then the FUN began:

McAfee was the first thing that popped up - even before the desktop. I politely answered "NO" but as it turns out - they want to "protect" you from yourself so it installed itself anyway. A removal and two reboots later (although they threatened me with everything just short of the plague for doing so) it seems to be gone. Then the updates started; only 29. Seemed like a small number so I was happy. Except update 3 took more than 30 minutes! A couple more reboots and now we're two-and-a-half hours into it and I finally have a desktop.

But the fonts were so fuzzy I could barely read anything. My mother, bless her heart, pointed out that with her eyes it made no difference to her but I wasn't going to leave it like that. I had forgotten much about a Windows install so there was a needed driver disk the came with the monitor (huh?) that I had ignored. 30 minutes (the CD software wouldn't install but found a good version on Viewsonic's website), several reboots, some web searching, font adjusting and so-on it's now readable.

The final task was to remove her old hard drive from the old Dell and install it in the new Acer so she could, at her leisure, copy her photos and what-not onto the new computer's drive. It installed easily enough, but every time I tried to select her old home folder it popped up saying "You don't have permission to access this folder" - another "huh?" moment. Who's every heard of NTFS file permissions? She's the only user on the system, so she's also the administrator. Just dumb. The folder loads and opens anyway (of course) albeit very slowly.

Four hours. Nothing installed, nothing removed (except that McAffe bloat-mal-crap-ware), nothing done. I'm still shaking my head. I left after I had SimCity installed and she started in on her new "City." No doubt she's still at it!

Funny part is: While we waited through the many Windows 7 delays and reboots, I pulled a thumb drive out of my pocket, booted to Kubuntu 12.10 and partitioned her old drive (still in the old Dell at this point), installed Kubuntu, rebooted and logged into it. Updated it. Took about 20 minutes. The 5 year old machine is plenty strong enough for Kubuntu and ran smartly. Shut it off.

So all you new-bees out there that are trying linux for the first time: Please don't bother posting "threats" that you'll return to windows if you can't get this or that problem worked out. You're welcome to Windows - have at it. I can boot, log in, log out, and shut down my linux machine while you're still watching the swirling startup logo. I can partition, format, install, and update an entire free OS faster than you can remove a the crap-ware Microsoft/computer makers make you take for the "privilege" of paying for their garbage.

OK, bitching session over. I guess I'm just mad about that lost four hours. Too bad software makers don't support a real OS instead of the crap the MicroSlop foists on the unsuspecting public. My 73 year-old mother-in-law loves her Kubuntu machine!

[bigseb]

Yeah, sounds familiar. I actually had to go through the whole Windows 7 install procedure today. By the time the OS and antivirus were done I lost interest and turned it off. Might carry on tomorrow. Maybe.

[PaulW2U]

While we waited through the many Windows 7 delays and reboots,

I have two laptops that I haven't used since September last year. One runs Vista, the other Windows 7. At some point I need to run both Excel and Word on a Windows PC to test some files that are currently in .ods and .odt format. I wonder how long it will take to fully update both laptops and how many reboots I'll have to make? >

With Linux I know that the longer I leave the task of updating the longer the update will take but there will only be one reboot at the most.

[oshunluvr]

Seriously consider a VM for that testing, Paul. It will take less time!

[PaulW2U]

Seriously consider a VM for that testing, Paul. It will take less time!

I'm pretty sure that the Samsung OEM version of Windows that I have won't install in a VM on the non Samsung PCs on which I have Kubuntu/Ubuntu installed. :mad:

[oshunluvr]

I think you're right. Bummer...

[james147]

Four hours. Nothing installed, nothing removed (except that McAffe bloat-mal-crap-ware), nothing done. I'm still shaking my head. I left after I had SimCity installed and she started in on her new "City." No doubt she's still at it!

I am surprised she was able to start a new city that fast, the latest simcity has had so many problems that Amazon stopped selling it for a bit: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21712910

[oshunluvr]

James: The new game started her with a city that she "took over." I suspect it's a tutorial on the new game. I haven't checked back in with her but I'm sure to hear from her this weekend.

Teunis: Most countries in Europe do MUCH better at protecting the interests of consumers over those of the corporations. Not here, I'm afraid. Also not here - any attractive 18 yr olds with MS skills! At least nowhere near my house. My wife wouldn't have it. Besides, at my age I'd be more inclined to eye a 30-40 yr old!

My daily Microsoft induced drudge: I'm a contractor in a Government building. Because of this, I cannot use my company laptop to access the internet or network in this building. Why? because the security (idiots) division decided that since they couldn't have admin control over my laptop, they couldn't guarantee the security of their network. This laptop has $1000's of dollars worth of my company software and my boss says no way do they (our government) lay hands on it. So I have two computers at my desk - My company laptop and a U.S. Government issued desktop - both of which I need to do my job. Thankfully, the Government just upgraded to MSOffice 2010 from 2003 because my laptop has 2007 on it. As you know, the 2003 version is quite different from the newer ones. At least going from 2007 to 2010 versions I can keep the same file format without resorting to "legacy" formats. However, since I use both machines I must rely on a thumb drive to transfer files between my two computers all day! What a pain in the arse. Icing on the cake: My job involves maintaining and operating a Linux network. The Feds just issued new thumb drives to their employees with encrypted filesystems. Of course, the Linux machines won't read these drives so I have to take files off the Linux machine on my plain-jane thumb drive, transfer them to my desktop, then to a network drive, then they can download them.

Glad I'm getting paid for all this...

[Xplorer4x4]

My 75 year-old mother needed a new computer to run her beloved SimCity as the newly released version's minimum requirements were well above her Dell XPS 210. So I found her an adequate Acer desktop model for less than $600 and she picked it up yesterday morning. Now when I say adequate, it has an AMD A10-5700 and Radeon HD 7470 video, a 2TB hd, and 12 - count em' 12 - gigs of RAM. I searched and found this model partly because it also came with Windows 7 64bit rather than Windows 8 (a whole 'nother rant ). This is supposedly the "best" version of Windows ever. Well, "best" is a totally relative term. To complete her upgrade she also bought a very nice 24" Viewsonic HD monitor.

So, last night I went over to get her new computer set up and on-line and such. Pulled it out of the box, plugged everything in: the rather cheap Acer was very well done IMO. Nice hidden dvd-rom behind a dust-door, tasteful clean lines on the case, built-in multi-format card reader, tons of USB 3 and 2 ports, etc. Turned that sucker on and it took about 20 minutes to start up - Initial Windows setup and such - not unreasonable IMO.

Then the FUN began:

McAfee was the first thing that popped up - even before the desktop. I politely answered "NO" but as it turns out - they want to "protect" you from yourself so it installed itself anyway. A removal and two reboots later (although they threatened me with everything just short of the plague for doing so) it seems to be gone. Then the updates started; only 29. Seemed like a small number so I was happy. Except update 3 took more than 30 minutes! A couple more reboots and now we're two-and-a-half hours into it and I finally have a desktop.

But the fonts were so fuzzy I could barely read anything. My mother, bless her heart, pointed out that with her eyes it made no difference to her but I wasn't going to leave it like that. I had forgotten much about a Windows install so there was a needed driver disk the came with the monitor (huh?) that I had ignored. 30 minutes (the CD software wouldn't install but found a good version on Viewsonic's website), several reboots, some web searching, font adjusting and so-on it's now readable.

The final task was to remove her old hard drive from the old Dell and install it in the new Acer so she could, at her leisure, copy her photos and what-not onto the new computer's drive. It installed easily enough, but every time I tried to select her old home folder it popped up saying "You don't have permission to access this folder" - another "huh?" moment. Who's every heard of NTFS file permissions? She's the only user on the system, so she's also the administrator. Just dumb. The folder loads and opens anyway (of course) albeit very slowly.

Four hours. Nothing installed, nothing removed (except that McAffe bloat-mal-crap-ware), nothing done. I'm still shaking my head. I left after I had SimCity installed and she started in on her new "City." No doubt she's still at it!

Funny part is: While we waited through the many Windows 7 delays and reboots, I pulled a thumb drive out of my pocket, booted to Kubuntu 12.10 and partitioned her old drive (still in the old Dell at this point), installed Kubuntu, rebooted and logged into it. Updated it. Took about 20 minutes. The 5 year old machine is plenty strong enough for Kubuntu and ran smartly. Shut it off.

So all you new-bees out there that are trying linux for the first time: Please don't bother posting "threats" that you'll return to windows if you can't get this or that problem worked out. You're welcome to Windows - have at it. I can boot, log in, log out, and shut down my linux machine while you're still watching the swirling startup logo. I can partition, format, install, and update an entire free OS faster than you can remove a the crap-ware Microsoft/computer makers make you take for the "privilege" of paying for their garbage.

OK, bitching session over. I guess I'm just mad about that lost four hours. Too bad software makers don't support a real OS instead of the crap the MicroSlop foists on the unsuspecting public. My 73 year-old mother-in-law loves her Kubuntu machine!

Just a few things I would like to comment on.
1. Mcaffee - This is the reason I would do a clean install from a system builders disk. My girlfriend just got a Samsung laptop a month or so ago(funny story she disliked the stock photo online but when we went in staples she unknowingly said "I like this one: which happened to be the one I recomended to her - lol) and first thing I did was grab my Win 8 DVD and format the OEM Win 8 install. It got rid of some of Samung's proprietary apps that server her no use.

2. Driver wise - On any clean install the first thing I do is install Driver Geniues. Microsoft used to hold on to really old driver versions forp lug and play fuctionality through windows update. They seem much better these days but I still prefer the latest version.

As for "best" I find that most people who have installed and actually given windows 8 a shot, find that weather you love or hate the start screen, Explorer wise, Win 8 is a very nice Win 8 upgrade. If you dislike the Start screen, you can bypass is it a few ways and add a start menu to Explorer and you never see or use the Modern UI.

Not saying I disagree with your comments, just some thing that I find help speed things up. Not to mention Windows 8 tends to out perform Windows 7 in terms of speed both in widnows and boot times.

I am surprised she was able to start a new city that fast, the latest simcity has had so many problems that Amazon stopped selling it for a bit: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21712910

And then companies wonder why Piracy is so high..

[oshunluvr]

Teunis: regarding the OEM vs. retail license. In this country a OEM version wouldn't install in a VM because it's installer is tied to particular hardware. They don't even give you discs anymore and when they did, they wouldn't install either. Only on the machine they came with, or at least the same model. If you bought a full retail version you could install it to a VM but I believe your license would legally entitle you to only a single install - VM or bare metal - but not both at the same time. I suppose one could make an argument for two installs to the same machine as within license but I'm not sure. Another reason to stick with Linux!

[oshunluvr]

I'd never heard of Driver Genius before, but looks like it might be worth the price of admission if you're a windows user. As far as Mom's computer - I don't have access to anything (Windows wise) other than what her computer came with - which of course does not include discs. For a 75 year-old the look of windows 8 is enough to make her say "No thanks" and I'm not interested enough to figure it out. The speed increase for her with the metal upgrade will keep her happy for years anyway.

Re. SimCity: I read the article and most of the issue revolved around the fact that it's a internet-only game now. The servers are over loaded. It took us about 15 minutes to find a server she could log into last night. It seems at 8pm California time most of the gamers in Eastern Europe are asleep or on their way to work so she logged into a server there!

[charles052]

I'd never heard of Driver Genius before, but looks like it might be worth the price of admission if you're a windows user. As far as Mom's computer - I don't have access to anything (Windows wise) other than what her computer came with - which of course does not include discs. For a 75 year-old the look of windows 8 is enough to make her say "No thanks" and I'm not interested enough to figure it out. The speed increase for her with the metal upgrade will keep her happy for years anyway.

Re. SimCity: I read the article and most of the issue revolved around the fact that it's a internet-only game now. The servers are over loaded. It took us about 15 minutes to find a server she could log into last night. It seems at 8pm California time most of the gamers in Eastern Europe are asleep or on their way to work so she logged into a server there!

I've heard of Driver Genius. You have to pay for it.

I'm still messing with Windows, unfortunately and right now I have some problems with flash on one computer and Silverlight on another. I wish I could just use Linux all the time because my Kubuntu desktop kicks butt!

[dave2001]

I've had my share of Windows headaches as well. I will agree that performing your own fresh install on any new machine will save time down the road. OEM licenses can occasionally be a real pain, the quickest way I've found to deal with the issue is a freeware program called Advanced Token Manager. Finding all the best drivers for a Windows install really seems to be a matter of trail and error. I've had less problems with Windows 7 than previous iterations, but there have still been plenty.

All that being said, there is one thing that windows seems to consistently do better at: graphics driver support. I watch a lot of video, and play a few games, and the linux drivers always seem to under-perform. I know this is mostly the fault of the companies who make the drivers, like nVidia, ati, and Intel. Still, the fact remains, nearly every PC I've seen both windows and linux run on, windows has better graphics perfomance, hands down.

To the OP: your 75 y/o Grandma is doing pretty good! My parents can barely turn a computer on, much less my grandparents!

[oshunluvr]

I've had my share of Windows headaches as well. I will agree that performing your own fresh install on any new machine will save time down the road. OEM licenses can occasionally be a real pain, the quickest way I've found to deal with the issue is a freeware program called Advanced Token Manager. Finding all the best drivers for a Windows install really seems to be a matter of trail and error. I've had less problems with Windows 7 than previous iterations, but there have still been plenty.

All that being said, there is one thing that windows seems to consistently do better at: graphics driver support. I watch a lot of video, and play a few games, and the linux drivers always seem to under-perform. I know this is mostly the fault of the companies who make the drivers, like nVidia, ati, and Intel. Still, the fact remains, nearly every PC I've seen both windows and linux run on, windows has better graphics perfomance, hands down.

To the OP: your 75 y/o Grandma is doing pretty good! My parents can barely turn a computer on, much less my grandparents!

I would only say that it would be more correct to state that manufacturers support windows with drivers than windows being better at it. Microsoft pays/cajoles this support. Most hardware actually performs better under Linux if it has good driver support.

And yes, my Mom (not Grandma - I'm 51!) is not too far behind the times. She has been playing games like SimCity since the 1980's and loves it. She has an Esty store that she set up herself and buys collector pieces at garage sales for pennies and sells them for big bucks! In contrast, my mother-in-law doesn't have an ATM card and takes her checks to the bank and stands in line.

[NickStone]

There is a very good SimCity clone in the repos called Lincity. Put Kubuntu on your mothers older pc stick lincity on it and ask her opinion on that game.