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    #1

    What the Mir is going on!!!

    Recently there has been a ton of posts about some of the recent Canonical decisions and how they would affect Kubuntu. Generally it was people just jumping to premature conclusions and as a whole Kubuntu would continue to exist in a form similar to now. But things might change massively.

    Forever and a day Linux has always relied on X.Org for handling the stuff we see on our screens. X has started to show its age for a while now and Wayland has been earmarked as its successor. All the big names have jumped onto the Wayland bandwagon namely Intel, Google, Samsung, Red Hat, the X.Org developers to name some. Canonical has been developing Mir behind closed doors and in the last few days dropped this bomb on us.

    If this is the official direction Canonical takes (which it looks almost certainly to be) then it does indeed spell the death of Kubuntu. KDE/QT has been ported almost completely to Wayland bar a few non deal breakers and currently exists on X but it is highly unlikely it will live on with Mir as supporting three display servers is probably just a bit too much for anybody.

    I know Mir might support Android drivers but apart from that I can't really see any compelling reason at all to adopt it especially since most ARM graphics drivers already support Wayland. Mir does have QT bindings which might help.

    Realistically, is this the long feared death knell for Kubuntu? Is it time for our fantastic community to put our support behind a different distro maybe Debian (Mint is unrealistic as it is Ubuntu based). If we don't mind forgoing our current package base then Chakra and openSUSE both have an incredibly dedicated KDE focus. Mint with its homegrown Cinnamon might also be in danger, their reaction is one to watch.

    Obviously I'm jumping the gun a little but still, even I'm starting to doubt our future.

    Some related articles:
    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTMxNzg
    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTMxNzc
    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTMxNzY
    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTMxNzI

    (Phoronix is of debatable quality but I find these articles to be quite well written.)
    Tags: arm, canonical, kde, mir, ubuntu
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    #2
    What's to keep Kubuntu from including X.org or Wayland as a dependency. It would mean that it couldn't co-exist with Ubuntu if Ubuntu require Mir, but it wouldn't be the death of Kubuntu.
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      #3
      This discussion sort of jumped to: http://www.kubuntuforums.net/showthr...display-server

      That's possible I agree but the vibe Canonical is sending is that they will essentially drop X.org and in turn it might become the duty of the spins to maintain it if they need it. The issue is that its possible that it will become too difficult over time to accomplish this task effectively and that Ubuntu with Unity is trying to wall itself in.
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        #4
        I don't know why they want to use up time, money and effort on developing their own display server when they could just use Wayland. What would be the point?
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          #5
          Originally posted by sealbhach View Post
          I don't know why they want to use up time, money and effort on developing their own display server when they could just use Wayland. What would be the point?
          They want full control over the software stack, IMO it's a combination of NIHS and a walled garden.
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            #6
            Originally posted by kubicle View Post
            They want full control over the software stack, IMO it's a combination of NIHS and a walled garden.
            Agreed.
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              #7
              This might change Kubuntu, I've heard talk of moving over to a completely Debian based system. If Ubuntu isn't going to maintain the Xorg stack, why bother with Ubuntu?
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                #8
                Originally posted by unheeding View Post
                This might change Kubuntu, I've heard talk of moving over to a completely Debian based system. If Ubuntu isn't going to maintain the Xorg stack, why bother with Ubuntu?
                Debian Stable - Relive 2003 in 2013.
                Debian Testing - Relive 2008 in 2013
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by dmeyer View Post
                  Debian Stable - Relive 2003 in 2013.
                  Debian Testing - Relive 2008 in 2013
                  Exactly. I like a stable system as muh as the next guy, but I dont want to wait a decade for todays software. Ubuntu has always provided a nice middle ground.
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                    #10
                    Originally posted by whatthefunk View Post
                    Exactly. I like a stable system as muh as the next guy, but I dont want to wait a decade for todays software. Ubuntu has always provided a nice middle ground.
                    Ironically, with KDE the greatest and latest version is usually the most stable and refined!
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                      #11
                      Sheesh. Talk about old. A sampling from Debian unstable:

                      * Linux 3.2
                      * KDE 4.8.4
                      * GNOME 3.4.2

                      Other stuff, like Postfix and PostgreSQL and Python (no particular reason for the "P" alliteration) seem current.
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by SteveRiley View Post
                        Sheesh. Talk about old. A sampling from Debian unstable:

                        * Linux 3.2
                        * KDE 4.8.4
                        * GNOME 3.4.2

                        Other stuff, like Postfix and PostgreSQL and Python (no particular reason for the "P" alliteration) seem current.
                        Debian unstable is discouraged. If you want the latest and greatest with some stability stick to Debian testing. Oddly enough though, unstable and testing are sitting at the same package versions.
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                          #13
                          just as a comment Island at Linux foundation .. the thread about Canonical's 'windowing shift' ...

                          A few items to put this into perspective.....which has been discussed elsewhere in the thread BUT...

                          The Big Point was that x-org just wasn't capable of going cross platform.

                          And Wayland was - "too rigid".

                          Also that there was a "video driver" problem but that it could be reconciled,


                          So... my question for people more knowledgeable..

                          Is. If the dominant Linux platform really does have the possible solution to being both...

                          "Vertically integrated" and "cross platform" ....

                          Then ... why not?

                          Just a question and of little worth

                          Woodjustwonderingsmoke
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                            #14
                            Originally posted by woodsmoke View Post
                            just as a comment Island at Linux foundation .. the thread about Canonical's 'windowing shift' ...

                            A few items to put this into perspective.....which has been discussed elsewhere in the thread BUT...

                            The Big Point was that x-org just wasn't capable of going cross platform.

                            And Wayland was - "too rigid".

                            Also that there was a "video driver" problem but that it could be reconciled,


                            So... my question for people more knowledgeable..

                            Is. If the dominant Linux platform really does have the possible solution to being both...

                            "Vertically integrated" and "cross platform" ....

                            Then ... why not?

                            Just a question and of little worth

                            Woodjustwonderingsmoke
                            Canonical are just suffering from NIHS. Pretty much every one of the "shortcomings" of wayland were shown to be bull****. The only advantage Mir actually has over Wayland is to be able to seamlessly run on android gpu drivers. The real reason people are getting up in arms is that Canonical is blatantly lying and adding fragmentation to Linux. Also the lack of public consultation hurt quite a bit.
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