Sad letter found in product from forced Chinese labour factory

[tek_heretik]

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/kma...162659934.html

[SteveRiley]

As a counterpoint to the mostly negative reporting about Chinese working conditions, I call your attention the series of reports by James Fallows, correspondent for The Atlantic and author of several important books about China.

Inside Foxconn
Inside Foxconn #2: strolling
Inside Foxconn #3: some dormitories
Inside Foxconn #4: new recruits, "Flying Tiger," CEO
Inside Foxconn #5: food
Back to Foxconn: cameras, clinics, hoops

His research culminated in the publication of a fascinating article, "Mr. China comes to America." Please take the time to read it. Fallows is a highly qualified and respected observer of Chinese culture, politics, and business.

...

Some observers inside and outside China think that the strains are too great and the system too rigid to allow the necessary rebalancing in time for the party to maintain political control. For instance, Minxin Pei, a native of Shanghai who now teaches at Claremont McKenna College in California, has been warning for more than a decade that the economic, social, and political imbalances of the Chinese system would reach a breaking point just about now—and that Communist rule would have to give way to a multiparty system. Many others contend that, on the contrary, the Communist leaders will manage somehow to address each of today’s problems just before any one becomes an outright emergency, as they have done time and again for 30 years. Whichever view proves correct, the relevant point for Americans is a convergence of trends that make operations here more attractive and feasible, just as the cost and friction of operating in China are increasing.
...

I had a more vivid sense of some of these challenges after this latest look at Chinese factories—especially at Foxconn, the world’s largest electronics maker. You learn a lot about China from its factories, of which I have now visited nearly 200—just as you would have learned a lot about the England of Charles Dickens and Friedrich Engels by seeing its factories, and the America of Theodore Dreiser and Upton Sinclair. Factories are not the only arenas for high-speed social transformation in China: its farms, from which working-age people are fleeing, and its cities, to which millions of people migrate each year, are also the settings for individual dramas and collective adjustment at a rate and on a scale that the world has never previously seen. But on this trip I spent time in factories. And what I saw underscored the ways in which the tumultuous transformation of China is complicating life for its outsourcers and exporters.
...

[tek_heretik]

That's all good for a fluffy facade Steve but the reality is, any country has unscrupulous politicians and business owners, China seems to be the leader in this area. The government manipulated the rules to scam migrant workers (poor rural farmer folk) to move to the cities to work in toxic factories for next to nothing, 12-15 hours a day, 6-7 days a week, no overtime pay, it is quite common for a factory worker to work TWO HUNDRED overtime hours in a single week month (thank you Snowhog for pointing out the mistake =), the pay can range from $0.50/hr to rare cases of $4.00/hr. Then when the worker hits the ripe old age of THIRTY, yep, 30, they are considered too old and redundant, sent packing back to where they came from, where conveniently the government says they are entitled to NOTHING (welfare, medical aid) because of their birth location (rural farm). So the ODD story about a nice peachy, shiney factory is just that, the majority are toxic slave camps. We all know the Chinese government likes to manipulate what the western world sees (or doesn't get to see) for propaganda sake.

Edit: Sources and data available upon request. ;-)

Edit 2: This has nothing to do with Foxconn, we are talking doll and toy factories, etc, everywhere where things are made for a fraction of the price we pay (FULL western prices). If a pair of shoes cost $5 to make, and $5 to ship them here, why are we paying $100 for the same shoes? Somebody is getting filthy rich and it's not us Joe/Jane Sixpacks, we are just losing our jobs and homes.

[Snowhog]

it is quite common for a factory worker to work TWO HUNDRED overtime hours in a single week,

That is simply impossible. Do the math. Seven days times 24 hours equals 168 hours. Subtract 40 hours (normal eight hour per day shift) and you have 128 hours left.

[HalationEffect]

That is simply impossible. Do the math. Seven days times 24 hours equals 168 hours. Subtract 40 hours (normal eight hour per day shift) and you have 128 hours left.

Two hundred overtime hours per week? Luxury!!

We used to have to get up in the morning at 10 o'clock at night, half an hour before we went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work 29 hours a day down t'mill - and pay mill owner for permission to come to work - and when we got home our dad would kill us and dance about on our graves singing "hallelujah".

You try and tell the young people of today that... they won't believe you!

[tek_heretik]

That is simply impossible. Do the math. Seven days times 24 hours equals 168 hours. Subtract 40 hours (normal eight hour per day shift) and you have 128 hours left.

You are right, I stand corrected, I believe the article stated 200 hours of overtime per month, that is still a lot, especially without overtime pay.

[bsniadajewski]

Two hundred overtime hours per week? Luxury!!

We used to have to get up in the morning at 10 o'clock at night, half an hour before we went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work 29 hours a day down t'mill - and pay mill owner for permission to come to work - and when we got home our dad would kill us and dance about on our graves singing "hallelujah".

You try and tell the young people of today that... they won't believe you!

Lemme guess. You had to walk uphill both ways to get there and back too, right?

[Snowhog]

Lemme guess. You had to walk uphill both ways to get there and back too, right?

Walk? That luxury was reserved to those who had legs. We pulled ourselves uphill, to and from work everyday, eight days each week.

[bsniadajewski]

Walk? That luxury was reserved to those who had legs. We pulled ourselves uphill, to and from work everyday, eight days each week.

Geez, talk about dragging your...well, you know... to work!

[SteveRiley]

That's all good for a fluffy facade ... The government manipulated the rules to scam migrant workers (poor rural farmer folk) to move to the cities to work in toxic factories for next to nothing, 12-15 hours a day, 6-7 days a week, no overtime pay ... when the worker hits the ripe old age of THIRTY, yep, 30, they are considered too old and redundant, sent packing back to where they came from, where conveniently the government says they are entitled to NOTHING ... So the ODD story about a nice peachy, shiney factory is just that, the majority are toxic slave camps ... We all know the Chinese government likes to manipulate what the western world sees (or doesn't get to see) for propaganda sake.

This has nothing to do with Foxconn, we are talking doll and toy factories, etc, everywhere where things are made for a fraction of the price we pay (FULL western prices). If a pair of shoes cost $5 to make, and $5 to ship them here, why are we paying $100 for the same shoes? Somebody is getting filthy rich and it's not us Joe/Jane Sixpacks, we are just losing our jobs and homes.

Did you actually read all the "Inside Foxconn" and the "Mr. China" articles? Fallows acknowledges most of the points you make. He mentions several other factory visits over many years of covering the country, and points out the difference:

and while I'm saving "what it all means" comments for later, I'll say that I've seen enough other Chinese factories, rural schools, villages and so on to recognize that these are on the higher end of the spectrum

As to whether Foxconn staged everything in preparation for his visit, he remarks:

At the Foxconn plant I visited, I know firsthand only about conditions I could observe in four hours of walking around the more than one-mile-square “campus” and being taken into selected dormitories, cafeterias, training rooms, and assembly-line areas by members of the newly accommodating Foxconn PR team. One part of the visit had the unmistakable note of the staged: In the sole dormitory we entered, whose occupants were all on their shifts at work, every towel and pillow in the four-bunk room I saw was perfectly aligned. The clothes were on hangers in precise order, and there was not a scrap of extra paper or debris on desks, dressers, the floor, or anywhere else. I could only assume that this room had been specially cleaned up; other parts of the campus resembled most other parts of China in being much more casually groomed. I’m acutely aware of all the things I did not see: conditions at night, the dorms where not four but six or eight workers live in each room, assembly lines where hazardous materials might be used or where the pace is exceptionally fast. Still, what I was allowed to see was more than a tiny keyhole glimpse—and my movement around the campus was less rather than more controlled than I’d been accustomed to on other factory visits. The scale of buzz and activity was so vast—cafeterias with thousands of people getting lunch, bus and shuttle stops with hundreds of workers waiting for a ride, coffee shops and convenience stores crowded with Foxconn patrons—that I doubted that every detail could have been orchestrated overnight. Plus, there were products to ship.

And he admits that conditions elsewhere aren't often as good:

At most other big Chinese factories I’d seen, people walked around all day in uniforms—usually gray or blue coveralls for men, light-colored smocks for women. At Foxconn, people wore anti-static jackets and caps when at work on the assembly lines and shirts or vests with the Foxconn logo when in offices. But when walking to the cafeteria, going to the shops, or commuting to normal off-site apartments, where three-quarters of the workforce lives, people were dressed in the blue jeans or cargo shorts and fake Polo or NBA shirts of a normal Chinese crowd. On the lines I did see, where printed circuit boards and other electronic components were being put together in a process that combined the use of large, fancy, expensive machinery with detailed handwork, the pace and supervision seemed no looser or tighter than I’d seen at comparable sites elsewhere in China. If you are looking for the most-gruesome factory conditions in China, you don’t go to a multinational giant like Foxconn, which has to deal with Western customers and pay at least some attention to appearances and laws. You go instead to the small, ramshackle, often unregulated workshops, often away from the big cities, where conditions are as inefficient and sometimes as unsafe as they were when China was just beginning to industrialize.

There's no reason to restrict the conversation in this thread to crappy working conditions at some doll factory. To do so would ignore the larger trend that Fallows documents in the "Mr. China" piece: conditions in China are changing, mostly in good ways. These changes have the interesting side effect of increasing production costs. And as a result, industries are re-evaluating the economics of outsourced manufacturing.

[tek_heretik]

@Steve...why are you obsessed with Foxconn and those one or two articles, I have never seen them or read them, the link to the article with the contents of that letter (a government religious persecution/political dissident prison factory making Halloween decorations that would up on K-Mart shelves) and what I have been reading (many other articles about NON-TECH factories) have very little to do with tech products made in China. It's the NON-TECH factory sector that has the most toxic sweatshops, 15 hour days, no toxic chemical protection for the workers, and when the workers get sick from the toxins, they are discarded like rejected product. With all due respect my friend, there is more to China than a couple of giant tech factories that turn people in to robots. My ex-girlfriend's dog was a victim of that tainted pet food back in the mid 2000s, the additive came from China, same place as the lead based painted children's toys, that wound up on Wal-Mart shelves, I can go on for days if you like.

Edit: It's a well know fact journalists or inspectors of any kind are closely watched, monitored and their movements are heavily restricted in China, so those articles would mean absolutely nothing to me, fluff pieces to stop Apple's stock from plummeting. So when a REAL (smuggled) letter from a worker in a prison factory comes along, it gives you an eye opening idea of what it is really like there. Name me one religious/political prison factory in the US.

[SteveRiley]

Tek... I'm not obsessed with anything. I have a deep interest in how globalization affects cultures, businesses, and politics. I'm not attempting to reduce the horrific environments many workers face in China. I think it is important, however, that we also keep informed about efforts that may help to improve even the shoddiest of situations.

Again, I call your attention to the following:

If you are looking for the most-gruesome factory conditions in China, you don’t go to a multinational giant like Foxconn, which has to deal with Western customers and pay at least some attention to appearances and laws. You go instead to the small, ramshackle, often unregulated workshops, often away from the big cities, where conditions are as inefficient and sometimes as unsafe as they were when China was just beginning to industrialize.

The tech factories have improved their working conditions because of pressure from their customers. Perhaps other industries could take a lesson from this, and toy companies could do the same. This is one of many of the points Fallows is making in his observations.

[tek_heretik]

The tech factories have improved their working conditions because of pressure from their customers. Perhaps other industries could take a lesson from this, and toy companies could do the same. This is one of many of the points Fallows is making in his observations.

It's all good Steve, nothing will change unless the current schizophrenic government (they are capitalist when it suits them) there is tossed out, they have a notorious history of turning a blind eye to things like this, and obnoxiously enforcing their perverse ideologies when it suits them.

[NickStone]

This whole story highlights one of the major flaws in Capitalism. That is, "greed". Capitalism is all about making as much money as you can and increasing profits year on year for the benefit of the few (bosses/share holders). For example, the bosses of a company like Apple outsources its manufacturing process of computers to countries like China or India because they can get them manufactured as cheap as possible then import those products back to the USA and sell them for "top dollar" thereby increasing profits for themselves and its share holders. The "normal" employee will be paid at the lowest end of the pay scale they can get away with.

Over the past few years the gap between rich and poor is increasing at an alarming rate whereby it is getting to the point whereby "normal" workers are having to cut back on essentials in order to survive.

Capitalism is all about having a "dog eat dog" mentality. About thinking of "number 1" and no one else matters.

I personally would like to see the return of the "co-operate" or "not for profit" organisations. What this means is that the organisation is run for the benefit of its customers and staff not investors.

Socialism starts here!

[tek_heretik]

This whole story highlights one of the major flaws in Capitalism. That is, "greed". Capitalism is all about making as much money as you can and increasing profits year on year for the benefit of the few (bosses/share holders). For example, the bosses of a company like Apple outsources its manufacturing process of computers to countries like China or India because they can get them manufactured as cheap as possible then import those products back to the USA and sell them for "top dollar" thereby increasing profits for themselves and its share holders. The "normal" employee will be paid at the lowest end of the pay scale they can get away with.

Over the past few years the gap between rich and poor is increasing at an alarming rate whereby it is getting to the point whereby "normal" workers are having to cut back on essentials in order to survive.

Capitalism is all about having a "dog eat dog" mentality. About thinking of "number 1" and no one else matters.

I personally would like to see the return of the "co-operate" or "not for profit" organisations. What this means is that the organisation is run for the benefit of its customers and staff not investors.

Socialism starts here!

There is nothing wrong with making money, creating jobs, whatever, it's how and where it's done, corporate social responsibility took a permanent vacation, doesn't look like it is coming back either.

Everybody seems to be missing the point of this thread, the link to the article with the smuggled letter is from a PRISONER in a forced labour factory in China, religious and political persecution, the same place US and Canadian corps love to send jobs and money.