Linux distributions?

[ArminasAnarchy]

Hi all!

I've been using Linux for some time now, and have experimented with different distributions. At the moment, I'm running Kubuntu 12.10, but have tried Debian, Mint and Fedora.

I don't consider myself anywhere near "expert" level, but I have got a fair amount of experience with hardware and different OSes. I would love to be able to run Fedora, but what put me off was the RPM package manager. I like to think of Fedora as a little more advanced than Ubuntu, and consequently a little more powerful - which of course is appealing! Having the latest and greatest is also important, and Fedora does display that.

Specifically, moving to Fedora was a pain for the following reasons:

1) Pretty much all my more "in depth" experience is with Debian-based distros. Faced with a new syntax when it came to using the terminal, and new commands to learn to use yum, it was just too much of a bother. Plus, there's no purge command, and since I'm a little OCD, the idea of config files just sitting around gets under my skin.

2) The repository seems much smaller. I understand the whole free software thing, and actually, I really am supportive of it. I do however believe that I have to be pragmatic to get things done - and sometimes that means using proprietary software. You seem to be (largely) out in the cold if you want to use this, there's no handy scripts for installing Java (like the Duinsoft one), and in order to add flash, you're given the choice of three repos, (rpmfusion etc) with no reference to which you should pick and/or why.

So here's what would be ideal for me. I want to continue learning with Linux, and since I've started with Debian-based distros, I might as well continue to build on that foundation. Kubuntu suits my needs for the time being, but I've run out of things to play with in it, and I'd love to feel I had the power and functionality under Fedora, but in something based on Debian. I know there are various tools too, in order to install .deb files on Fedora, but it'd be nice to be able to use stuff like this natively - it seems a little messy just to lump something on top of an existing OS when there's probably a suitable alternative that's a little more stream lined.

What are people's suggestions? Also, since we're on the Ubuntu forums, I guess it makes sense to ask...why are you here, presumably running Ubuntu, and not utilising your suggestion? I'm looking for the pro's AND the con's folks!

[jpenguin]

Well I use kubuntu because of the large package repo+getdeb+playdeb+ppa's

If you want more advanced, but still debian you could try aptsid or LMDE

You might want to take look at PCLinuxOS too

With fedora, you did install the rpmfusion repos right?

[whatthefunk]

I really like Crunchbang. Runs great on older hardware.

[NickStone]

Have a look at fuduntu. It's either Ubuntu based upon Fedora or Fedora based upon Ubuntu.

[james147]

I suggest giving ArchLinux a go, as far as distros go it is one of the most flexible and transparent. It only provides you with a minimal install and then guides you into installing what you need. It uses pacman for its package manager which I now find easier then apt-get or yum.

It also has one of the best wikis around which explains how to set up almost every thing you will want.

If you are interested in learning more about how Linux works it is a great distro to try but if don't want to set things up your self then I tend to recommend kubuntu.

[vw72]

I would suggest making a list of things you are looking for in a distro and prioritizing them. Then look at distros that best fit your list. Another approach, since you are using kubuntu, is to make a list of things you like and don't like. Maybe some of your don't likes could actually be solved and if not, your likes will point you towards distros similar to what you are wanting.

Otherwise, it's been my experience that without have a clear idea of what you are looking for, switching distros can be frustrating.

[dequire]

I would suggest making a list of things you are looking for in a distro and prioritizing them. Then look at distros that best fit your list. Another approach, since you are using kubuntu, is to make a list of things you like and don't like. Maybe some of your don't likes could actually be solved and if not, your likes will point you towards distros similar to what you are wanting.

Otherwise, it's been my experience that without have a clear idea of what you are looking for, switching distros can be frustrating.

Exactly! Pragmatism works well in deciding where to go from here, if anywhere (personally Kubuntu is everything I want in a Linux distribution, including the ability to be as bleeding-edge or as conservative as I want). Other candidates to try might also include Razor-Qt, Rosa Linux, or Netrunner. These choices would imply a bias towards KDE / APT-centric distributions, of course. And in the RPM world there is Charka also.

[james147]

RPM world there is Charka also.

Charka is based of archlinux and is pacman based, not rpm based

[ArminasAnarchy]

I suppose to summarise my desires:

-rolling releases. Not having to reinstall the system every 6 months would be realllly nice.
-bleeding edge features/software, but at the same time, something not impossible to fix. Although this sounds a little strange, it is possible - I don't believe bleeding edge has to mean unstable. Also, I'm constantly running into issues with Kubuntu "stable" release anyway. The latest issue is my touchpad has just died - I'm having to use a USB mouse atm. I'm running Aurora Firefox currently, and I've found it if anything MORE stable than the default release. This links into the desire for having continuously updating features too.
-apt for package manager - relearning a bunch of new commands is a pain, plus, the Ubuntu repo is huge and it would be handy to have that natively.

I think if it would be possible to have Fedora based on apt, that would be perfect. I know you can install deb files and stuff, but there's still the pain of learning to reuse the terminal.

Responding to the suggestions already made:

- aptsid I've considered, does anyone have experience of it? Thoughts/feelings? LMDE I've never heard of. PCLinuxOS I thought was aimed at complete beginners, and didn't have that umph in it I'm looking for?
- Crunchbang, again, I've never heard of. The hardware I've got is pretty new though, and presumably the backwards compatibility with older hardware would mean it wasn't featuring the latest and greatest?
- I was under the impression that Arch (and Gentoo) were pretty much expert level? In any case, there's the whole new terminal thing...
- Fuduntu I've heard of, and is rpm based.
- Razor-Qt, Rosa Linux, or Netrunner: never heard of these, apart from Razor-Qt. I thought it was a DE though? :P Thoughts people?

[oshunluvr]

AFAIK, only Arch and Gentoo and their derivatives are truly rolling-release distros. Many others, like Aptosid are peusdo-rolling as they are built on a non-rolling parent. Forum member "dibl" uses Aptosid and loves it.

Having been a Kubuntu user since 2009 I find this model the best. You actually don't have to upgrade every six months unless you want to. I tend to skip a release unless there is a compelling reason to upgrade sooner. For me, 10.04 was an LTS (Long Term Support) so I used it for a full year. The LTS releases have a five-year life cycle and much of the newer stuff is often backported into the older releases. Then I needed a newer kernel so I did a new install of 11.04. 11.10 wouldn't install properly so I stuck with 11.04 for another full year then tried 12.04 which worked well. I'm using 12.10 now because of the major changes to KDE and will again upgrade to 13.04 for the same reason.

Honestly - over the last 5 years my linux "skills" have improved enough that no distro scares me. It's really a matter of need vs. effort. I love KDE, debian packaging, and having 1000's of apps at my fingertips. IMO, no other distro does that better than this one.

I would suggest DistroWatch to find out about other distros.

p.s. netrunner is dead.

p.p.s Just to nit-pick, the Arch-based KDE distro is "Chakra" ( Shock-Rah, as in the seven body centers of energy) not Charka ( Char-Kaw, as in burned crows - )

[dibl]

As said by james147, Arch is perhaps the most "instructive" Linux distribution that you can strap on. Their forum is also excellent -- perhaps the very best online Linux forum that you'll ever find, in my experience.

oshunluvr mentioned that I adopted aptosid some time ago, which is true. At the end of last year, siduction forked from aptosid, and I'm a siduction user for a year now (6 machines here). They actually made me a mod on their forum for some reason -- I guess they don't know me very well.

As an early and devoted Kubuntu user, I'm often asked "why aptosid/siduction?". The reason is very, very simple: I use my computer for serious work, and I came to find the 6-month version upgrade/reinstallations an annoying interruption to my productivity. Not the time to install, but rather the time to reconfigure my tools and work environment, which extended for days and days after the reinstallation. (Of course, one does not HAVE to upgrade the version, but I also suffer from "latestversionitis" which leads to the inevitable re-installation of the latest and greatest ...). With siduction, which (like arch) is a "rolling release", I run a dist-upgrade daily and there is never a time when I lose those hours and days of productivity while re-jiggering my environment back to the way I need it. Of course, every choice has consequences -- with Debian Sid, you run the risk of having a dist-upgrade pull in a lightly-tested package that breaks things on your system. So it is not at all recommended for beginners -- you have to be alert and watch the forum for warnings, and actually read the dist-upgrade messages before you accept the updates. If you're careful, however, you can have a system that runs for years, and yet has the latest available versions of all the common productivity packages. The system that I'm writing this on was built in 2010 and has been continuously upgraded since about January of 2011, including "cross-grading" from aptosid to siduction. It's running marvelously today (note the uptime):

don@imerabox:~$ inxi -v3
System:    Host: imerabox Kernel: 3.7-1.towo-siduction-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit, gcc: 4.7.2)
Desktop: KDE 4.8.4 (Qt 4.8.2) Distro: aptosid 2011-02 Ἡμέρα - kde-lite
Machine:   Mobo: ASUSTeK model: P6X58D-E version: Rev 1.xx Bios: American Megatrends version: 0602 date: 03/24/2011
CPU:   Quad core Intel Core i7 CPU 950 (-HT-MCP-) cache: 8192 KB flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx) bmips: 33737.3
Clock Speeds: 1: 4217.162 MHz 2: 4217.162 MHz 3: 4217.162 MHz 4: 4217.162 MHz 5: 4217.162 MHz 6: 4217.162 MHz 7: 4217.162 MHz 8: 4217.162 MHz
Graphics:  Card: NVIDIA GF100 [GeForce GTX 480] bus-ID: 05:00.0 X.Org: 1.12.4 driver: nvidia Resolution: 1920x1200@59.9hz
GLX Renderer: GeForce GTX 480/PCIe/SSE2 GLX Version: 4.3.0 NVIDIA 313.09 Direct Rendering: Yes
Network:   Card: Marvell 88E8056 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet Controller driver: sky2 ver: 1.30 port: d800 bus-ID: 06:00.0 
IF: eth0 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: 20:cf:30:5c:41:1d
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 2136.5GB (3.2% used) 1: model: OCZ            2: model: OCZ 3: model: KINGSTON_SS100S2 4: model: WDC_WD1002FAEX 5: model: WDC_WD1002FAEX
Info:      Processes: 324 Uptime: 7 days Memory: 1638.3/5966.1MB Runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: 4.7.2
Client: Shell (bash 4.2.37) inxi: 1.8.24

BTW, I have Kubuntu 12.04 and 12.10 on VMs, in case the opportunity comes up to help someone here.

[james147]

-rolling releases. Not having to reinstall the system every 6 months would be realllly nice.

ArchLinux does this better then almost every other distro.

-bleeding edge features/software, but at the same time, something not impossible to fix. Although this sounds a little strange, it is possible - I don't believe bleeding edge has to mean unstable. Also, I'm constantly running into issues with Kubuntu "stable" release anyway. The latest issue is my touchpad has just died - I'm having to use a USB mouse atm. I'm running Aurora Firefox currently, and I've found it if anything MORE stable than the default release. This links into the desire for having continuously updating features too.

This also sounds exasctly like Archlinux, it is a rolling release model, but is very stable at the same time. Most of the problems I have had with it where my own fault in some way or another. It has a testing repo that is seperate from the main one so all packages are fully tested before being move over. Due to its flexible nature it is also able to cope with far more situations then I find other distros can cope with as well as more unusual requirements without breaking.

-apt for package manager - relearning a bunch of new commands is a pain, plus, the Ubuntu repo is huge and it would be handy to have that natively.

Arch repos are also quite big, and more up to date then most Debian based distros while still being very stable. There is also the arch user repo filled with packages that any one can add so if it is not in the offical repo then it almost certainly is in the AUR. If not then you are encouraged to build your own package and put it in the AUR which is far easier to do then building a deb package :S. Also, I find pacman MUCH simpler to use then apt-get/dpkg as you only have one program to learn not about 5 different ones (dpkg, apt-get, apt-file, apt-cache....) and does not take long to learn. And I find pacman much faster the apt-get at installing packages.

I think if it would be possible to have Fedora based on apt, that would be perfect. I know you can install deb files and stuff, but there's still the pain of learning to reuse the terminal.

If you are not willing to learn how a new system works then stick with the one you know.

- I was under the impression that Arch (and Gentoo) were pretty much expert level? In any case, there's the whole new terminal thing...

It is for more advanced users, but not expert level only... the only real requirement is that you are willing to learn and read... which if you don't want to do then it is not for you... which is a shame because apart from that it sounds like the perfect system for you from everything else you have said.

- Razor-Qt, Rosa Linux, or Netrunner: never heard of these, apart from Razor-Qt. I thought it was a DE though? :P Thoughts people?

Razor-qt is a DE not a distro.


I highly doubt you are going to find a distro that matches all of the requirements you have listed, if you are willing to learn a new system I highly recommend Archlinux, but if not then I would stick with kubuntu or maby Debian testing (it is more rolling then ubuntu, but is far less stable then Archlinux).

If you want a middle ground you can try Chakra, it is based off archlinux, but requires less need for terminal knowledge. I a, not sure it is a rolling release however.

[bsniadajewski]

What I like to see is Ubuntu is a "current" repository that really only points to the current release of *buntu (even a current-LTS for LTS releases). OpenSuse has that in its online repos and allows one to keep up-to-date with software without going through the "do-release-upgrade" every six months. Coupled with a "Tumbleweed"-like repo you could have a virtual rolling-release.

[vw72]

With regards to one of the comments stating that Netrunner was dead, that isn't true. They just released a new version based on Ubuntu 12.10 on December 22. Like Kubuntu, they are supported by Blue-systems. Their website is http://www.netrunner-os.com/

[oshunluvr]

What I like to see is Ubuntu is a "current" repository that really only points to the current release of *buntu (even a current-LTS for LTS releases). OpenSuse has that in its online repos and allows one to keep up-to-date with software without going through the "do-release-upgrade" every six months. Coupled with a "Tumbleweed"-like repo you could have a virtual rolling-release.

AFAIK, as long as you set Muon to "Never" notify you of new releases, you won't even be aware they're available much less be forced to install them. The PPA's manage versions all by themselves. Just because all the files are in a single directory doesn't mean you can somehow accidentally install an upgrade above the version you're running. In other words - I can see no benefit to a separate repo for each release.

As far as netrunner goes: I stand corrected. For some reason I thought it had been abandoned.