Peacefully grant the State of Texas to withdraw from the United States of America

[oshunluvr]

I'm really touched by your concern for my genitalia. Remember, however, it is the unloaded weapon that kills.

Anyone else see the irony in this sentence? Sorry everyone - sometimes I just can't help myself.

Anyway, all loose weapon talk aside - GG: that is an incredible story. I hope for everyone's sake that poor, damaged man stays where he is. However, if it goes the other way I trust you will do the right thing and protect your family and society.

[charles052]

Anyone else see the irony in this sentence? Sorry everyone - sometimes I just can't help myself.

Gun enthusiasts learn to treat every gun as if they're loaded, even after they've unloaded the gun themselves and have checked it thoroughly. Many gun accidents occur because someone thought the gun was unloaded.

[SteveRiley]

Once unloaded, I'd wager that Jerry's genitalia present absolutely no threat. So what's the worry? Oh, wait...my bad. We're discussing bullets. Sorry. The shapes are so similar...I really need to cut back on the in-flight gin-and-tonics!

[GreyGeek]

The double entendre was unintended ... (Isn't playing with words fun!) !!

If my "hole" were as big as that on the nose of a JHP then I wouldn't have had BPH problems.

IF push comes to shove (more word play! ) I've changed my mind about the choice of defense. I'm leaning toward a Beretta BU9 Nano.

The FBI standards for penetration are specific: no less than 12" nor more than 14" of ballistic gelatin, which duplicates the behavior of muscle. All modern firearms ammo with calibers greater than .38 and fired from handguns with 3" or longer barrels meets that standard. This standard was created after the Miami massacre in which many FBI agents were killed because they were under armed.

Unlike high velocity rifle rounds, handgun rounds to not kill by cavitation or shock. They kill by exsanguination, i.e. blood loss, unless a lucky shot hits the brain stem, brain core or the dorsal aorta. Roughly 50 joules of energy is taken from a bullet for each layer of clothing it passes through and the epidermal layer absorbs as much energy as 4" of muscle. So, a bullet passing through the skin and, say, a good bicep has already lost the equivalent of 8 of the 12" of gelatin. If it passes through the skin, the bicep, the skin, the skin again, and into the thoracic cavity, as shot in the side could, then it will lose the equivalent of 16" inches of gelatin. Most HP (hollow point) rounds wouldn't make it into the thoracic cavity. Since HP handgun rounds don't usually produce much cavitation they, too, rely on bleed out. The HP only increases the diameter of the round, making it slightly more liable to hit a major artery. I've seen .45 JHPs get slowed by the sternum so much that they don't have enough power left to penetrate another few millimeters into the heart, where a second round a few inches to the left in the same body penetrated clear through the lungs and stopped just under the skin on the back side. So, if penetration and bleed out are the goal a FMJ is the choice, along with firing more than one round. The more holes the quicker the kill, IF they are in the center of body mass, the most easy to hit target.

Head and neck shots take excellent nerves and aim, but most shootings take place in distances under 15 feet. If you are not willing to shoot to kill then don't carry a gun at all, because a person who isn't incapacitated by a well placed first shot on the center line between the belly button and the eyes will more than likely get mad at you and return fire. If you played "John Wayne", stood in a fully exposed frontal position and didn't fire from at least a partly concealed position you will be lucky you don't get hit and bleed to death as well. That old saying, when seconds count the police are only minutes away, applies to ambulances as well. Personally, I would never pull a weapon to save property. Even the lives of bad guys are worth more than property. But, if the bad guy were making death threats against by standers, or shoots at one, or at me, then ...

[sixonetonoffun]

Kind of funny guys. My current favorite websites are kfan, savageshooters, armslist and occasionally snipershideout and longrangehunting. I have yet to shoot myself or my neighbors. Though I stopped buying handguns when my state required a permit to purchase. Which is a ridiculous requirement since I can still buy components and build my own without one. State legislation like this does nothing but hurt industry. I'm not a 2nd and 5th amendment evangelist but strongly feel there should be only Federal regulation of firearms and local ordinances to address local issues. States should not be able to interfere with commerce or individual rights in such a way as this. Its almost criminalizing the intent.

Now permits to carry are all the rage here. Which is fine but how do I know who has a permit or not? Certainly I'm just going to ask every gun toting idiot I see for a look at their permit! We recently had a road rage incident here where a PTC holder went over the deep end and shot a man in face. Did the deceased care that the shooter had a PTC in his possession? I doubt it.

Still I could talk myself in a circle with that sort of example but seriously too many laws restricting too many freedoms IMO. Further more if no one sees me pissing in the backyard is it illegal? Immoral? I dunno but sometimes it happens.

[SteveRiley]

if no one sees me pissing in the backyard is it illegal? Immoral? I dunno but sometimes it happens.

So now we know why your lawn has all those spots of dead grass.

[Qqmike]

(1) S-R, How do you know about producing spots of dead grass?
(2) S-R, How do you know HIS yard has such?
Oops, sorry, thinking a bit too paranoid tonight, guess I been reading up on too much McAfee literature.

[SteveRiley]

(1) I have observed what my neighbor's dog has wrought on their lawn. Piss, generally being of similar constituent chemical nature across most mammals, is poisonous to plant life.

(2) It's just a guess. OK, so I'm projecting my assumptions onto someone else! Not like that ever happens around here, eh?

[Qqmike]

" ... projecting my assumptions onto someone else! Not like that ever happens around here, eh?"

I've never seen that happen around here, not ever. Far as I kin remember, anyways.

[sixonetonoffun]

Actually it was so dry this year we only mowed lawn 3 times before it all went dormant. Usually its twice a week until mid July at least. On the good side saved a lot of gas and blade sharpening. Also hint: nothing grows under the ancient oak tree in the back yard (though I did see a scarce burying beetle pull a dead robin into the ground there once) and human urine is not as concentrated as your neighbors dogs. From the piles of wild grape seeds out in the woods I can assure you all that bears truly do sheot in the woods.

[GreyGeek]

.... Now permits to carry are all the rage here. Which is fine but how do I know who has a permit or not? ...

Well, I don't know about the state you live in but here in Nebraska it is legal to Open Carry, and given the 2nd Amendment, backed up by recent SCOTUS rulings, it should be legal in all the states. However, open carry in many locations would bring out the hysteria in many people, so concealed carry is much better. The big advantage of concealed carry is that the bad guys don't know who's carrying and how isn't, so the risk level for the use of fire arms in committing a felony rises substantially for them. If enough people concealed carry ...

[SteveRiley]

This thread is just silly. Therefore, I must continue

Also hint: nothing grows under the ancient oak tree in the back yard

Confirmation, yes!

I can assure you all that bears truly do sheot in the woods.

Funny, I thought only the Pope did that.

Well, I don't know about the state you live in but here in Nebraska it is legal to Open Carry

But is it legal to open pee? Or must one obtain a peer-mit?

[luckyone]

I have no problem with someone getting a license to carry a concealed weapon. The vetting that's necessary keeps criminals out of the picture. Though it does nothing about the crazies. But the use of force is still subject to judicial review and may entail incarceration and trial. So the non-crazies are given some pause at least.

While on that subject I'd like to point out that the ATT (UN arms treaty) will not effect a citizens right to keep and bear arms. It will restrict their right to ship guns and ammo outside of the country. Which is restricted now anyway by Federal law. Unless you're a government agency that is.

Back a ways in this semi-wonderful thread a 'conservative' mentioned that 'liberals' didn't value the life of the unborn. I find it compelling that that 'conservative' thought parallels the Chinese Communist Party in the need for the State to have control of a female persons womb. Thank you, I'd just as soon have the State stay out of my wife's womb, my sister's womb, my daughter's womb, and my mother's womb. I won't even mention my girlfriend's womb.
The State simply has no business there except making sure that safety of the mother is maintained. That's all. When you have a baby is after birth. Not before.

On the death penalty. I used to be pro. I'm now persuaded that killing is fraught with mistakes, outright misconduct of District Attornies, lies, and emotional context. Especially for the families of victims. And the costs involved are really one-sided. Lock 'em up. The if there is a mistake it can be rectified.

As for drugs:
It appears that the people can be led down a path that ends in Prohibition of such without any idea of the ultimate cost. I'm for total legalization of all of them. Allow 'Drug Stores' to be licensed to sell to adults. Big Pharma can produce medically pure drugs. Which would save a few from ODs and many others from side effects of impure concoctions. It would also get the gangs and cartels out of a very profitable business. Elimenate a lot of street crime. It would even lower the rate of things like burglarly because of the lower cost of drugs produced legally.
Have provisions that are stiff for delivery to minors. So stiff that it'll be normal for those who use to have a lock box that's certified to keep the little rascals out of the goodies dad and mom want to use to get intoxicated.
There are plenty of laws concerning DUI, etc. to keep the situation safe for the vast majority. We seem to keep alcohol for the most part under a control that we can live with.
Plus those laws should be even handed enough that even the little old lady with the pink hair who's using Valium faces the same laws concerning driving as everybody else. I won't even mention the guy who's using 80mg of oxycontin three times a day for back pain.

Though it does bring up the problem of what a DUI is exactly. A blood level is really not a good or fair indication of whether anyone is incapable or unsafe. A test of ability to drive safely would need to be developed. The clinicians should be able to work one up fairly easily. They already use simulaters to test for distracted driving. But I'm not going to go into that can of worms! Except to say that the people who're using phones during driving are a bigger danger to us all than alcohol ever was.

[GreyGeek]

T.... But is it legal to open pee? Or must one obtain a peer-mit?

This is Nebraska! What do you think?

[Snowhog]

Me thinks that in all 54 States/Territories, that specific weapon must be concealed when in public!