Presumptive Obituary

[Snowhog]

Dateline November 6, 2012


The United States was taken off life support this evening, declared now to be in 'end stage' in its long battle with terminal debt.

[luckyone]

I'm a little more optimistic than that. For instance I remember when Ronald Reagan got his big tax cut. I got a whole $7.83 more on my two week pay check. In other words this country can pay it's way if it wants to. Problem is that most people don't want to pay for what they get.
This country is under taxed, not over taxed. Especially in the upper income areas. In particular Social Security would be solvent if the tax applied to all income. I believe that alone would allow a lowering of SS taxes by a significant margin.
I will also mention the government subsidy for corporations. Especially the larger multinational ones. Check how much GE paid last year for instance.
I should also mention the recent contender for the Presidency's off-shore accounts. You do know why off-shore accounts are used don't you?

[oshunluvr]

Everyone has forgotten the maximum tax rate in the US was 94% in the past and our rates for the last 25 years have been lower than the preceding 50 years by about half. Most European countries pay mid-twenties percentage at a minimum and a some go up to as high as 80% which is why they generally have better health care and transit systems than we do. I don't think we need to go that far, I just bring it up as a comparison.

The so-called "Big Reagan Tax Cut" lower the maximum tax rate from 70% to 28% during his terms, but also lowered the level at which you reached those rates by nearly 90%. Effectively raising taxes on the working middle class and lowering them for the rich. That's why Luckyone got an extra $7.83 a week, but the millionaires got bucket-loads of savings. Reagan also "Reduced the Federal Payroll" by contracting out tens of thousands of jobs. I knew dozens of people who retired from their civil service jobs, started contract services for the same work, and got paid more from the contracts than they did working for the same job and collected a pension at the same time. Those guys got rich off of the taxpayers. Reagan was the first of the modern breed of sneaky Republician carpet baggers and thieves.

I seriously doubt those earning $250k or more will miss a few hundred or even a couple thousand dollars a year. If Americans really want to solve the debt issue, taking money from the poor, elderly, and working commonfolk has to be the least moral way to go about it. The so-called "trickle-down" idea only really works if you're a kid of rich family. Otherwise, they're keeping as much of it for themselves as possible - as human nature dictates.

Personally, I think the solution is a much simplier tax system with flat tax rates for everyone over the poverty level and the removal of most or all deductions and all the loop-holes. Maybe a national sales tax instead of income tax with rebates for those earning below a certain amount. I know I'm tired of filing 300 pages of tax forms each year and paying an accountant $800 a year to produce them. I'd rather have a reasonable amount deducted each paycheck and be done with it. Then follow that with clamping down on the congress and their earmarks and credit spending. Besides, want to reduce the size of government? Lets keep the EPA (because we'll all die if the corporations have free reign over the environment) and close the IRS instead.

If the point was supposed to be that Obama will increase the national debt: According to the CBO, almost 50% of the current public debt is due to the Bush tax cuts and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan with only about 25% or so due to TARP and recovery costs. If Bush had been paying attention to the bankers and Wall St. instead of lining his friends pockets with even more oil money and committing war crimes we wouldn't have needed the TARP and recovey expense at all. It's totally in that idiot's lap in my opinion. Romney wanted to cut taxes further and would likely put us at war with Iran next. Then we really would have been terminally ill.

[dibl]

Personally, I think the solution is a much simplier tax system with flat tax rates for everyone over the poverty level and the removal of most or all deductions and all the loop-holes. Maybe a national sales tax instead of income tax with rebates for those earning below a certain amount. I know I'm tired of filing 300 pages of tax forms each year and paying an accountant $800 a year to produce them.

I'm 100% with you on that, you crazy liberal left-coaster!

I'd even be happy with a hybrid of income tax and VAT/National sales tax. This business of depending totally on income taxes from working citizens for the revenue is just goofy -- the middle class sneezes and the federal budget is down with pneumonia. Being the world's most materialistic society, it seems there is a vast sea of consumer purchase transactions waiting to help fund the government, and then us more conservative types could see the demotivational tax on earnings eased up considerably.

[oshunluvr]

Exactly. The idea of income from everyone who visits here, plus reducing the ability to escape from taxes, and the benefits the economy gets from when we save instead of spend are all pluses in favor of the national sales tax.

It's too simple an idea though. The politicians will never allow something that they can't muck about with to benefit their cronies and themselves.

[Detonate]

We used to have more people pulling the wagon than riding in the wagon. Now we have more people riding in the wagon than pulling. Until we fix that problem we will never get out of this mess.

[SteveRiley]

We used to have more people pulling the wagon than riding in the wagon. Now we have more people riding in the wagon than pulling.

In many cases, the migration from puller to rider was involuntary. For example, when the owner of the wagon moves it offshore.

you crazy liberal left-coaster!

Department of redundancy department. And speaking of left coast, wasn't it cool to watch our precincts light up NPR's big board last night? Mmmm yeah

[oshunluvr]

I had the laptop going on the coffee table and the news on the big screen! I actually thought it was going to be a closer result. I kept playing with the CNN electoral map toy trying to guess the numbers ahead of the results.

When it was clear that Ohio, Florida and Virginia no longer mattered, I went to bed.

[dibl]

Once every four years us Buckeyes become hugely important, and are visited and called by all the beautiful people. In the past 5 days I was called by Michelle Obama, Pat Boone, Mitt Romney, Mike Huckaby, and Bruce Springsteen. Plus my phone recorder caught a whole lot more that went straight to the digital dumpster. Now it's all over for 3.5 more years -- back to being "flyover country bums", I guess.

[benny_fletch]

The simplest idea for taxes:
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServ...owFairTaxWorks

I haven't completely read up on it, but Fair Tax does sounds like it would work and we could close the IRS as oshunluvr suggested. A win win

I too don't think we are doomed, now that Congress doesn't have to worry about making Obama un-electable maybe they can actually concentrate on doing some actual work.

[SteveRiley]

Once every four years us Buckeyes become hugely important

Yup. Watching two blokes compete for President of Ohio is always good entertainment.