every reader in the WORLD needs to read this!!

[woodsmoke]

I am SO mad that I can spit nails!!!

I watched the CSPAN testimony on the Bengazi thing....

Rep. Dennis Kucinich, who is prominently known as a Liberal, having brought impeachment papers agains Pres. Bush asked all of the "state department" people there a question.

"How many shoulder launched surface to air missiles are "loose" in Libya since the U.S. intervention?"(missiles that could bring down a "passenger jet").

Note, he was talking about President Obama's intervention.

He POINTEDLY asked the U.S. ambassador to Libya, and the two people at the State Department who are directly above the station chief.

None of them knew. He asked each of them directly, the U.S. Ambassador twice.

The answer from The Army’s Lt. Col. Andy Wood, who led a 16-person security team in Libya for six months,

10,000 to 20,000 shoulder launched surface to air missiles are "loose" in Libya.

EVERY PERSON IN THE WORLD NEEDS TO REALLY THINK ABOUT THOSE NUMBERS.

Forget Obama, look at the NUMBERS!!

10,000 to 20,000 shoulder launched surface to air missles are "loose" in Libya.

This is not "the testimony" but verification of what I heard said.

woodsmoke

[NickStone]

Scaremongering!

[GreyGeek]

Hardly scaremongering.
Facts are facts.

And just what do you think terrorists are going to do with 10K-20K shoulder fired ground to air missiles? Target practice on pumpkins?

Here's scaremongering: our southern boarder is so porous that some of those missiles could be carried into this country (USA) and used to shoot down airliners.

Except that it could happen...

[NickStone]

Welcome back GreyGeek.

[GreyGeek]

Haven't moved yet ... my wife is taking too long to pack the boxes...
(If she sees this she'd kill me!)

[woodsmoke]

Hi GG again, hope the move goes well!

nickstonefan

I specifically said forget obama, I do not blame Obama.

And the reason I used "world" is if even the low number, ten thousand, is correct then just

RANDOM motion would put at least one of them near an airport, even if all the rest of them were found.

And WHICH airport?

Random motion would put one near maybe..... the airport in Nairobi.

Nairobians are just as important as U.S. citizens.

***********************

I specifically noted the "democrat" because USUALLY, "democrats" are known for minimizing "wild statements about defense."

He knew the number ahead of time and was fishing to get "someone" to provide the number.

I, pesonally, cannot even imagine that the Amabassador to Libya would not know it if a military person did.

Again, I was not going after Obama, one "could" take this all the way back to Bush and blame him because he went into Iraq, or all the way to Teddy Roosevelt who had to deal with Pedicaris, or all the way to the Crusades, or all the way back to Muhammed, or I guess to Christ, or maybe Mitra.

I was not blaming anyone, merely indicating what seems to be an "accepted" number "by those in the know".

The point is that of such a huge number, maybe there are only maybe.... 2000 that do not get recovered.

Ok so of 2000, two hundred are actually able to be smuggled "out".

Of those maybe twenty end up near an airport.

And since we are "only" dealing with people who have never fired one, only two ever actually get fired.

One doesn't hit the plane but the second does.

There is absolutely no way for a President or Homeland Security person to KNOW...

Unless there has actually been a number count of "those recovered"....

How many are left out there to be used.

In other words...

10,000 to 20,000 missiles

one brings down a plane

and it take the whole system to gridlock and the airline industries are bankrupted

Or we put up missile defense shields around every airport.

Except....

missile defence shields are not designed for shoulder launched missles.

The reaction time is too short between the launch the impact.

What is REALLY scarey to me is that "if" the number is really that large.... then

just RANDOM MOTION of people scurrying around with them trying in any way, shape, form, or fashion to get "their path to be with Allah" launched at a plane, will produce a LOT of launches.

I would think that the President of France would be SCARED SH@#$%^^ that even ONE of those things could end up in France and be launched at the Louvre.

Even the launch would cause cause a frenzy, because what if there is even ONE more waiting to be launched at the Louvre?

The whole country would be in a state of panic.

*****************************

If the government ever sinks enough billions of dollars into the bullet train in the U.S. I will never ride it.

Because we have such a open system any nut job, jihadi or Christian white supremacist, could put one stick of dynamite, brought in from Venezuela under the rails and a whole lotta people are gonna be instantly dead.

You might remember that under Bush, the "border patrol" was checking "id" at STATE borders within the U.S.

Bush, himself, mused about establishing a national id and that people would have to show id to go from state to state just to try to MINIMZE the chance, not eliminate, the RANDOM chance that a nutso could do something.

the Soviet's had to have id and permission to travel from one town to another.

*****************************

I APPLAUD.....the "democrat"....Kucinich for getting the number out in front of the public.

I would vote for Kucinich, if i could for that ONE heroic thing....because I think he is going to receive nothing but grief from the Democratic "power structure".

*****************************

LOL.....one of the few times that I actually have used the term "impact" !! lol

woodsmoke

[bsniadajewski]

And just what do you think terrorists are going to do with 10K-20K shoulder fired ground to air missiles? Target practice on pumpkins?

And in some places around this time of year, the pumpkins are the missiles.

But I tell ya, that could be trouble if we're not looking, especially if some of those missiles have nuclear warheads.

[woodsmoke]

Hi
Yep, PUMPKINS ARE ABOUT TO ABOUND!! lol

But, these are shoulder launched things, not nuclear tipped, but enough to take down a plane.

woodsmoke

[HalationEffect]

Would you pay an extra dollar on your ticket price for peace of mind when flying on a commercial jet? Then insist your airlines install this on their planes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_Guardian

Guardian is designed to operate autonomously, without input from the flight crew. An array of sensors detects a missile approaching the aircraft and passes this information to an infrared tracking camera. The system's computer analyses the input signals, to confirm that the threat is real, and then directs a beam of an eye-safe infrared laser at the incoming object. The laser is intended to introduce a false target into the missile's guidance system, causing it to turn away from the aircraft. The detect-track-jam process lasts for two to three seconds. The system then automatically notifies the pilot and air traffic control that a threat has been jammed.

The system is wholly contained in an external, 460 mm (18 inch) high pod that weighs 250 kg (550 lb) and is mounted to the underside of the fuselage. The pod is removable, and can be transferred to another aircraft within an hour. The system costs US$1 million per aircraft, and, when ongoing maintenance costs are also considered, Northrop Grumman estimates that the system will cost each passenger an additional dollar in ticket price.

[bsniadajewski]

Hi
Yep, PUMPKINS ARE ABOUT TO ABOUND!! lol

But, these are shoulder launched things, not nuclear tipped, but enough to take down a plane.

woodsmoke

It does make me wonder though. Is it possible to have a nuclear-tipped missiles in a shoulder launcher. Think of the possiblities (from the perspective of the terrorist, that is)

[SteveRiley]

Why do people always worry about planes?

Tobacco kills 443,000 people every year; this number includes the 49,000 killed by second-hand smoke. If risk mitigation is at partially informed by the scale of the response, isn't solving this problem far more important?

[woodsmoke]

It isn't people "worrying about planes".

If there ever is even just one airplane taken down by a shoulder launched missile it will throw the whole airline system into chaos, that will throw multiplie countries economies into some kind of "tizzy", and that could take down whole countries.

Asymmetrical warfare.

Bush said in no uncertain terms that "the problem" was not the U.S. being able to take out terrorsts wholesale, it was keeping the U.S. populace in the mindset that this is going to be a decades long asmymertical warfare situation.

One might notice that the U.S. is STILL in Germany, 60 years later, Japan 60 years later, Korea 50 years later.

There were Nazi "terrorists" still doing guerrila warfare quite a few years after "hostilities" ended.

The leader of Iran said at the U.N. just two weeks ago that the U.S. and Europe are "fleeting phenomena" compared to how long the "Persian Empire" has been around.

We, think "rationally", when you have a guy that thinks that an Imam is going to come up out of a well to establish the world wide Caliphate, you aren't dealing with what we, in the west, would call a "rationally thinking" man.

One of the things about the Imam in the well is that one can get him to come out SOONER if one causes "chaos" here on the earth.

Anybody remember Idi Amin?

The west tried to think he was "rational" also......

The Bloch affair loosened tongues in Israel and a doctor who had served in an Israeli medical aid team in Uganda told a newspaper correspondent in Tel Aviv: "It's no secret that Amin is suffering from the advanced stages of syphilis, which has caused brain damage".

Bio Link

He was not rational in any way that we can think of.

What if it was Idi Amin with ten thousand shoulder launched missiles?

So it is not that people should be afraid of airplanes, it is the the real possibility that one missile could bring the whole world economy down.

woodsmoke

[whatthefunk]

One might notice that the U.S. is STILL in Germany, 60 years later, Japan 60 years later, Korea 50 years later.

This has absolutely nothing to do with terrorists. The US wants to be in these countries so it can assert its power in Asia and Europe.

[woodsmoke]

I absolutely agree with you whatthefunk, but they are "ready forces", except for the garrisons, that can be quickly deployed for whatever reason.

"Maintaining power" is what any of the "analysts" for counter-terrorism say need to be done.

The point being for the U.S. to so "harry" the terrorists "over there" that they have a much reduced chance of coming "over here".

And, with the exception of a few countries, most other countries rely on the U.S. to provide that umbrella for them because they literally do not have the capability.

I used to use the analogy of Hillary Clinton, if she were elected President, bringing all the troops "home" and then posting a ring of troops inside the border facing out with guns.

One terrorist brings in a "back pack" nuke through maybe the Louisana swamps. The terrorists having spent five years slowly moving it from port to port, city to city and up through South America.

After the terrorist abortively attempted to use it in the forest just outside Newark NJ, .....what could Hillary do?

Nobody takes responsibility for it, but there was a threat posted as to the day of the attack on the net the week before.

The country goes into a panic about the possibility of ANOTHER one that might really work the very next day, week, month, year?

And the country goes into melt down.

What is Hillary to do? Rail at the air with her fists in the U.N.?

Throw a nuke at some country with "known terrorist cells"?

What is she to do but look out over the ocean and cry as the country melts down.

And the same with any other country on the earth.

If there really ARE "ten to twenty thousand" of the shoulder launched missiles around....

Just HOW.... is a country to plan for it?

So, back to what Bush said, this is going to be a multi-decade war that is asymetrical.

And it will take keeping ALL of the countries of the world at least somewhat focused on the problem.

If I lived on an island, I would be really worried about this. if air traffic basically disappears, then the island is then dependant upon ocean going vessels.

The economy of the island could collapse.

I have a long time friend that lives in New Zealand. They are "relatively" self sufficient and are near Australia so the effect of loss of air travel could be somewhat mitigated but it would still be devastating.

The "flow" of information, people, small goods, mail, etc would be "asymetrical" for the island. Slower than on a big continent. The economy of the island could collapse or, in a best situation, just become "moribund".

So many weapons, so little information, so few people to stop just ONE terrorst.

woodsmoke

[SteveRiley]

If we would just get the frack off of other nation's lawns (and out of their oil fields), wouldn't most of these "threats" against the US evaporate?