Rumble in the air conditioned auditorium

[woodsmoke]

I call the Sunday morning guys "sabbath gasbags."
Might it be that, if we had multiple parties, forced on occasion to actually friggin cooperate with each other, lead to less divisiveness and less rigidity of worldviews?

Hi SR
I think you possibly mis-read my post.

Whereas previously I thought we should not,

I am now, agreeing, that we should have a third party.

woodsmoke

[bsniadajewski]

Looks like we have a few to choose from here.

[SteveRiley]

I am now, agreeing, that we should have a third party.

I guess I'm not seeing that in your post #12.

[woodsmoke]

Hi SR:

Correctamundo as far as I am concerned.

(about your post about a third party, with which I previously disagreed, for thirty odd years to be precise! )

woodsmoke

[oshunluvr]

I vote for a new one: The "Common Sense" party. I'd start by totally reforming tort law, copyright law, labor law, bankruptcy law, and the tax code.

When you look at it that way, not much to do really...

[Jonas]

Because PBS doesnt care about ratings. Why do you think these idiotic windbags are on TV to begin with? For their intelligence? Their extensive political knowledge? No. They are on TV because they get people fired up by presenting emotionally loaded half-truths which draw viewers. They give people someone to blame. Thats why we have all this crap about Liberals doing this and Elites doing that....for ratings. Its not unlike what Hitler did really. And what really gets me is that the people who are telling the masses this garbage are the ones who have the most to benefit from it. People seriously need to wake up.

+100%

My thoughts exactly, but toned down in a netiquette manor
Public service media like BBC, SVT etc I find much more in balance then it's private counterparts, even though they seem to be pushed to this non in depth kind of reports.

I have argued AGAINST a third party for decades for one simple reason...look at all the European countries with multiple parties.

They can get NOTHING done.

woodalwayswaspragmatist/kindofindependentsmoke

What's to "get done" - democracy or ...?

Depending on how "get done" is interpreted - one party states get hell of a lot more "done". China is the shining example of "getting things done".

Whereas previously I thought we should not,

I am now, agreeing, that we should have a third party.

woodsmoke

There's waaaaay more then 3 parties already in the US, maybe it's the biased media coverage that cover up all but 2 of them.

b.r

Jonas

[woodsmoke]

lol
good question Jonas.

Things like roads and bridges, sewers and water, electricity, etc.

There is a reasons why people are told not to drink the "local water" when going on vacations in Europe, etc.

[oshunluvr]

Who's ever told you not to drink water in Europe? Mexico sure, but Europe Did I miss a point somewhere?

[woodsmoke]

Jonas please note my reply in the immediately previous post.

This post:

Watching TCM there is a "Passing Parade" film on about "This is Tomorrow", in which it advocates the "planned communities" of post WWII.

But the curious thing is the very first part of it wherein it is showing kids playing on railroad tracks and being "run down by a car".

And, it presents, LOGICALLY, why the factory towns sprung up, out of necessity because of lack of a transportation system, but then asks why the original ideals, of the original people who came to the U.S., have not been able to be realized.

The curious thing was the introductory sentence, this is a quote:

The Democrats blamed the Republicans, and the Republicans blamed the Democrats.
The Socialists blamed the Capitalists and the Capitalists blamed the Socialists.

There were a few more parings of this group blaming that group and vice versa...

But then....a really pregnant sentence, this is a quote:

And this was 1946.

"But things haven't changed much have they..."

So.... sixty five YEARS AGO....

they realized that the "socialists" did not have all the answers

and they realized that the "capitalists" did not have all the answers

they realized the Republicans did not have all the answers.

and they realized the Democrats did not have all the answers.

To get past the "old" ideas, they thought that the solution was "merely" that of:

a) better planning of towns
b) better planning of roadways
c) development of air travel

But the overweening idea was that NONE of the "groups" had THE answer.

woodsmoke

Addendum to the above:

There was an "implication" in the depiction of the "planned towns" that the wives, who were "stay at home moms" of course, would go to a "community laundromat" to do the laundry and while away the time playing cards in the fresh air.

The RESULT of this was what I saw in New York City this summer. Whole burroughs wherein people are desperately going to laundromats to do the laundry because the apartment blocks will never be rewired because of the basic structure of the building and because it is a "landlord paradise".

So, in quiet desperation, sometimes loud, the people stuck in those burroughs are living out the unintended consequences of the shortsighted plans of socialists, capitalists, Republicans, Democrats...

and....."city planners".

second note: for those who prefer one or the other of the above groups, I have tried to put one first in one line and another first in another line so that each is presented in an equally BAD light...

after all we all should be "equal"....right?

[Jonas]

lol
good question Jonas.

Things like roads and bridges, sewers and water, electricity, etc.

There is a reasons why people are told not to drink the "local water" when going on vacations in Europe, etc.

I don't follow you. Europe have trouble to get things done because of the "multi-party" democracies, and you bring infrastructure as a argument?

Great parts of Europe have the best maintained and run train lines in the world, fast tracks in France, Germany, Spain, UK and Sweden and more are being built. Most of the tracks are electrified(=oil independent)all over Europe, including former East block.



... and I haven't even mentioned the broadband infrastructure.

I don't know about the rest of Europe but Sweden is self sufficient for electricity, most part from water dams.

The tap water in Sweden is chemically cleaner then most bottled water in the world. I've been drinking tap water from most western European countries and beside the subtle taste of chlorine, I've never been ill. I'm sorry to say that you've been misinformed.

Based on your statement I can't see what you mean.

Jonas please note my reply in the immediately previous post.

Not sure I follow here either- that you reconsidered the 2 party democracy? I know you did as I quoted you.

This post:

Watching TCM there is a "Passing Parade" film on about "This is Tomorrow", in which it advocates the "planned communities" of post WWII.

But the curious thing is the very first part of it wherein it is showing kids playing on railroad tracks and being "run down by a car".

And, it presents, LOGICALLY, why the factory towns sprung up, out of necessity because of lack of a transportation system, but then asks why the original ideals, of the original people who came to the U.S., have not been able to be realized.

The curious thing was the introductory sentence, this is a quote:


There were a few more parings of this group blaming that group and vice versa...

But then....a really pregnant sentence, this is a quote:

And this was 1946.


So.... sixty five YEARS AGO....

they realized that the "socialists" did not have all the answers

and they realized that the "capitalists" did not have all the answers

they realized the Republicans did not have all the answers.

and they realized the Democrats did not have all the answers.

To get past the "old" ideas, they thought that the solution was "merely" that of:

a) better planning of towns
b) better planning of roadways
c) development of air travel

But the overweening idea was that NONE of the "groups" had THE answer.

woodsmoke

Addendum to the above:

There was an "implication" in the depiction of the "planned towns" that the wives, who were "stay at home moms" of course, would go to a "community laundromat" to do the laundry and while away the time playing cards in the fresh air.

The RESULT of this was what I saw in New York City this summer. Whole burroughs wherein people are desperately going to laundromats to do the laundry because the apartment blocks will never be rewired because of the basic structure of the building and because it is a "landlord paradise".

So, in quiet desperation, sometimes loud, the people stuck in those burroughs are living out the unintended consequences of the shortsighted plans of socialists, capitalists, Republicans, Democrats...

and....."city planners".

second note: for those who prefer one or the other of the above groups, I have tried to put one first in one line and another first in another line so that each is presented in an equally BAD light...

after all we all should be "equal"....right?

Here's a good article about tenants in New York. You may figure out that I'm not so pro any of the ideologies above, or that I consider US Republican- and Liberal parties as the same ideology.


http://libcom.org/blog/direct-action...-home-27062012

It's a good site to catch some new angles for anyone who only get their news from the "usual" channels (edit; yes it's biased, but far more in depth).

best regards

Jonas

[woodsmoke]

I refer mainly to places like Italy which has a multiplicity of parties and what is reported as a crumbling infrastructure due to an inability to form a consensus opinion on what to do and when.

woodsmoke

[SteveRiley]

I refer mainly to places like Italy which has a multiplicity of parties and what is reported as a crumbling infrastructure due to an inability to form a consensus opinion on what to do and when.

But originally you wrote "...in Europe," Woody. That's an overbroad generalization, something you ordinarily (and rightfully) criticize.

BTW, I've slaked my thurst from the taps in New Delhi, Bombay, Bangalore, Hyderabad, Colombo, Bangkok, Saigon, Hanoi, Kuala Lumpur, and Manila. I think most of those warnings are perhaps no longer necessary.

[woodsmoke]

SR
Oh really!
hmmmmmmmmm
That is a good thing to hear since "the world water supply" is a hotbed of hand wringing in the heavy duty environmental precincts.

woodsmoke

[Snowhog]

Visualisation of the distribution (by volume) of water on Earth. Each tiny cube (such as the one representing biological water) corresponds to approximately 1000 cubic km of water, with a mass of approximately 1 trillion tonnes (200000 times that of the Great Pyramid of Giza or 5 times that of Lake Kariba, arguably the heaviest man-made object). The entire block comprises 1 million tiny cubes

[Jonas]

I refer mainly to places like Italy which has a multiplicity of parties and what is reported as a crumbling infrastructure due to an inability to form a consensus opinion on what to do and when. woodsmoke

Ahh....Italy - the land of the religious extremists. ;-) I stand corrected! b.r Jonas