Obama will never; Romney might

[bsniadajewski]

Heh Actually my normal reference would be "For Dogs sake"

Don't forget about ol' Pete. Every eants to do things for his sake.

[HalationEffect]

What, no love for the Flying Spaghetti Monster (all hail his noodly appendages!) ?

[GreyGeek]

Oh for gods sake, Obama is no Marxist, like Romney he's does his corporate masters bidding. Definitely wall streets friend.

This bizarre reality defying tendency the right has to project "muslim/marxist/facist/socilaist" on the so called left is quite baffling. Next you'll be talking about his plan to let the secret vast UN army in to take all your guns and establish a one world state.

As SR says ... be fair!

Interesting logic ... the Right is a fact, the Left is "so called", as if it were a figment of peoples imagination. Your argument from ridicule is exactly Saul D. Alinsky's 5th Rule, from page 128 of "Rules For Radicals":

Ridicule is man's most important weapon. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage.

Ridicule is a devious and important weapon, and is often used to counter facts. Nice try with that secret army accusation, but you can't really read people's minds, which you would have to do to make such a claim.

Actually, you can tell a lot about a person by the company he chooses to keep, and exceptions do not make the rule. Let's look at his relatives and friends.

His mother was Stanley Ann Dunham Obama Soetoro. She lived in the Seattle area, spending her teenage years in Seattle's coffee shops with other young radical leftists and was a radical leftist and cultural Marxist. Obama's claims that his mother's family were conservative Methodists or Baptists from Kansas, and they were, but Ann Dunham was a member of a left-wing Unitarian church near Seattle while living there. The church located in Bellevue , Washington was nicknamed "the little red church," because of it's communist leanings.

Barack Hussein Obama Sr. In 1965 Obama's father wrote an important paper titled "Problems Facing Our Socialism," published in the East Africa Journal. In it he was very critical of the blueprint for national planning titled "African Socialism and Its Applicability to Planning in Kenya," produced by Tom Mboya's Ministry of Economic Planning and Development. Obama's paper put him on the side of communist-allied leader Oginga Odinga against pro-Western 'third way" leader Tom Mboya and the President of Kenya Jomo Kenyatta.

Frank Marshall Davis. In Hawaii, Barack was mentored by a member of the Communist Party by the name of Frank Marshall Davis. Davis, whom Obama calls “Frank” in his memoir “Dreams from My Father,” was an unrepentant communist. He stayed with the Communist Party even after the Hitler-Stalin pact. That’s why he is referred to as “a Stalinist agent.”

Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. The Weather Underground terrorists, Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, weren't just any '60s radicals. They were communists who openly supported the enemy killing Americans in Vietnam. Some of the members in this group, including Dohrn, had traveled to Havana, Cuba, to get instructions from the communists about how to wage their campaign in the United States. Having escaped justice due to illegal evidence collections by the FBI, Ayers became an educator, but remains faithful to his original political leanings.

Sen. Alice Palmer. According to the public evidence Obama launched his political career in Chicago at the home of Bernardine Dohrn and Bill Ayers. Other people who were there include then-state Sen. Alice Palmer. There are two reports that state Sen. Palmer had been involved in a Communist Party front group called the U.S. Peace Council and had actually made a trip to the old Soviet Union.

Most telling of all is the person chosen to run Obama's blog during the 2008 campaign, Sam Graham-Felsen. He writes in a Marxist publications that openly calls for revolution against the American government. He is a former writer for the leftist Nation magazine and a contributor to the Socialist Viewpoint. He is certainly a believer in class warfare. The product of a Harvard education, Sam is an admirer of anti-American academic Noam Chomsky. Mr. Chomsky is fond of visiting dictators and terrorists and giving speeches that blame the worlds' ills on America.

Despite his friends and the fact that Obama used "Rules For Radicals" to train "community organizers" in Chicago, the best argument against Obama being a Socialist is given by Bill Wharton, who is one:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...031301899.html

One of the "marks" of a Socialist, Wharton tells us, is the call for the recall and return of all American troops from the Mid-East. mmm... that is my position too, so I guess I am a Socialist, and not on the "Right" as you suggest. But, despite how the conditions of the times are shaping his policies I think the evidence that Obama is a Socialist is overwhelming.

BTW, there is nothing wrong with being a Socialist in America, so what's the fuss?

[Cornova]

"Rules For Radicals":

I didn't know about this book, very interesting, thanks for posting.

[oshunluvr]

What I want to know is: When will we have a government that understands they are creating our enemies? Our tax dollars funded both sides of Afganifstan (our longest war ever, and we're losing - just like the Russians did), our oil money feeds Al-Qedia and the Taliban, $DEITY knows what else. But lets not invest in renewable energy and reduce oil consumption because the Bushes and their fellow carpet-bagger criminals haven't figured out how to rob the rest of us blind with it yet. As far as Muslims go - I'm way more afraid of the far-right-wing pysco so-called Christians in this country that have taken over what's left of the Republican party - funded by the Koch brothers through the "Tea" party - than I am of any Muslims I've ever met or heard of. Obama is no better - tripled the military and has a death list on his desk. Personally, I have no hope for this country unless and until there is a viable third party run by people with common sense and running right down the center of the Country's opinions. However, the Republicans are crazier the the Democrats are for the time being (the reverse of the 1980's) so I'm once again (seems this is always the case) voting for the least offensive candidate - Obama. Honestly, since I'm in California it doesn't matter much since the Republican party is all but gone out here.

[woodsmoke]

My oh my oh my.....

Seems like there is a whole lotta "projectin' goin' on" to paraphrase a phrase.

The original post said nothing about "why" I thought what I thought and I mentioned that my dad flew in the same group as the real Memphis Belle.

The film may be a "composite" and "dramatized" but the Memphis Belle existed and my dad knew some of the crew. My dad's plane was not the first to go 25 missions but the crew , and the pilot, were and still are famous for a variety of things about the Berlin missions and they are honoured in a painting in the Capitol.

However, GG has posted the names and some small bios of people who are reported to have influenced Pres. Obama. It would possibly be an interesting read for others, if people would refute what he posted, in a factual way of course.
Again, there seems to be a lot of "projection" in the posts dunno..just seems that way...

Don't know, just sayin'....



woodsmoke

[Snowhog]

Vote Romney. Period. A vote for anyone else is a vote for Obama, and we can't let that happen.

[HalationEffect]

Interesting logic ... the Right is a fact, the Left is "so called", as if it were a figment of peoples imagination

I think perhaps the left is "so called", because by the standards of almost any other western democracy, the Democrat Party is about half-way between left and right. They only seem to be on the left because the Republican Party is so very far to the right.

[SteveRiley]

As to sources of fear...

I'm way more afraid of the far-right-wing pysco so-called Christians in this country that have taken over what's left of the Republican party

Yup, much more worrisome than the

left-wing Unitarian church near Seattle... The church located in Bellevue, Washington was nicknamed "the little red church," because of it's communist leanings.

I know this place, and many of the folks who frequent it. They couldn't be bothered to hoist a Birkenstock to squash a fly, let alone plot some kind of Marxist takeover

[blackpaw]

I think perhaps the left is "so called", because by the standards of almost any other western democracy, the Democrat Party is about half-way between left and right. They only seem to be on the left because the Republican Party is so very far to the right.

Bingo. Exactly.

[Jonas]

What I want to know is: When will we have a government that understands they are creating our enemies? Our tax dollars funded both sides of Afganifstan (our longest war ever, and we're losing - just like the Russians did), our oil money feeds Al-Qedia and the Taliban, $DEITY knows what else. But lets not invest in renewable energy and reduce oil consumption because the Bushes and their fellow carpet-bagger criminals haven't figured out how to rob the rest of us blind with it yet. As far as Muslims go - I'm way more afraid of the far-right-wing pysco so-called Christians in this country that have taken over what's left of the Republican party - funded by the Koch brothers through the "Tea" party - than I am of any Muslims I've ever met or heard of. Obama is no better - tripled the military and has a death list on his desk. Personally, I have no hope for this country unless and until there is a viable third party run by people with common sense and running right down the center of the Country's opinions. However, the Republicans are crazier the the Democrats are for the time being (the reverse of the 1980's) so I'm once again (seems this is always the case) voting for the least offensive candidate - Obama. Honestly, since I'm in California it doesn't matter much since the Republican party is all but gone out here.

+1

The most sane post I've read here about US foreign policies. Thank you oshunluvr.

Lol - Obama being a "marxist" or socialist.

Guilt by association? - give me a break GG, don't ridicule my nor your intellect.

There's nothing socialist about Obama's policies today. lol

As that "comedian" Bill O'rilley would say "The spin stops here!"
(That guy have actually made me literally roll on the floor laughing, until I realize hes actually serious, and the most viewed tv-show in the US. It's so sad that people in the US actually get their information or "news" from this clown.

b.r

Jonas

[whatthefunk]

As SR says ... be fair!

Interesting logic ... the Right is a fact, the Left is "so called", as if it were a figment of peoples imagination. Your argument from ridicule is exactly Saul D. Alinsky's 5th Rule, from page 128 of "Rules For Radicals":


Ridicule is a devious and important weapon, and is often used to counter facts. Nice try with that secret army accusation, but you can't really read people's minds, which you would have to do to make such a claim.

Actually, you can tell a lot about a person by the company he chooses to keep, and exceptions do not make the rule. Let's look at his relatives and friends.

His mother was Stanley Ann Dunham Obama Soetoro. She lived in the Seattle area, spending her teenage years in Seattle's coffee shops with other young radical leftists and was a radical leftist and cultural Marxist. Obama's claims that his mother's family were conservative Methodists or Baptists from Kansas, and they were, but Ann Dunham was a member of a left-wing Unitarian church near Seattle while living there. The church located in Bellevue , Washington was nicknamed "the little red church," because of it's communist leanings.

Barack Hussein Obama Sr. In 1965 Obama's father wrote an important paper titled "Problems Facing Our Socialism," published in the East Africa Journal. In it he was very critical of the blueprint for national planning titled "African Socialism and Its Applicability to Planning in Kenya," produced by Tom Mboya's Ministry of Economic Planning and Development. Obama's paper put him on the side of communist-allied leader Oginga Odinga against pro-Western 'third way" leader Tom Mboya and the President of Kenya Jomo Kenyatta.

Frank Marshall Davis. In Hawaii, Barack was mentored by a member of the Communist Party by the name of Frank Marshall Davis. Davis, whom Obama calls “Frank” in his memoir “Dreams from My Father,” was an unrepentant communist. He stayed with the Communist Party even after the Hitler-Stalin pact. That’s why he is referred to as “a Stalinist agent.”

Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. The Weather Underground terrorists, Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, weren't just any '60s radicals. They were communists who openly supported the enemy killing Americans in Vietnam. Some of the members in this group, including Dohrn, had traveled to Havana, Cuba, to get instructions from the communists about how to wage their campaign in the United States. Having escaped justice due to illegal evidence collections by the FBI, Ayers became an educator, but remains faithful to his original political leanings.

Sen. Alice Palmer. According to the public evidence Obama launched his political career in Chicago at the home of Bernardine Dohrn and Bill Ayers. Other people who were there include then-state Sen. Alice Palmer. There are two reports that state Sen. Palmer had been involved in a Communist Party front group called the U.S. Peace Council and had actually made a trip to the old Soviet Union.

Most telling of all is the person chosen to run Obama's blog during the 2008 campaign, Sam Graham-Felsen. He writes in a Marxist publications that openly calls for revolution against the American government. He is a former writer for the leftist Nation magazine and a contributor to the Socialist Viewpoint. He is certainly a believer in class warfare. The product of a Harvard education, Sam is an admirer of anti-American academic Noam Chomsky. Mr. Chomsky is fond of visiting dictators and terrorists and giving speeches that blame the worlds' ills on America.

Despite his friends and the fact that Obama used "Rules For Radicals" to train "community organizers" in Chicago, the best argument against Obama being a Socialist is given by Bill Wharton, who is one:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...031301899.html

One of the "marks" of a Socialist, Wharton tells us, is the call for the recall and return of all American troops from the Mid-East. mmm... that is my position too, so I guess I am a Socialist, and not on the "Right" as you suggest. But, despite how the conditions of the times are shaping his policies I think the evidence that Obama is a Socialist is overwhelming.

BTW, there is nothing wrong with being a Socialist in America, so what's the fuss?

So you are what your friends are? Man, Im a mess.... I have friends who are gun nuts, vegans, army-for-lifers, and pot smoking hippies. I have friends who have never even had a sip of alcohol and friends who have died from various addictions. Ive had gay friends and relatives who's faces curl up into snarls when the word gay is even mentioned. My grandmother was an alcoholic racist who hated Asians and Mexicans yet Ive spent a third of my life in Asia and have a huge number of Asian friends. I have die hard Republican friends, friends in the Chinese Communist Party, and friends who consider themselves anarchists. I have punk rock friends, hip-hop friends, classical friends, and jazz friends.

So what does this mean? If you wanted to show that I was a Communist by simply looking at my associations with people in the past, you could easily do so. If you wanted to show that I was a gun toting NRA member, you could do this too. If you wanted to show that I was a drugged up burn out, you could do this. If you wanted to show that I was clean and sober, this could also be done.

[Arran]

Understand Memphis Belle.

My dad was a belly gunner in another ship in the same box. and the next flight to be the lead plane, for then next two years with seven planes of the same name shot out of the sky and from under them.

He looked like the character played by Billy Zane in the movie but was only 5' 5", kinda stocky in build.

He, along with the rest of the crew, is in a painting of another famous B-17 that was placed in the Capitol building Wash D.C. a few years ago.

Obama will never understand this film and Romney might understand it; when we DESPERATELY need a person who is President who at least SOMEWHAT understands what it means to the WORLD to have an adversary that is implacable.

woodsmoke

I am sorry, but I have to write this comment:

This is a truly international Forum, despite probably the majority of users live in northern America. However a substantial number live outwith, some are potentially living in rather hostile countries towards the US. I therefore appeal to all users not to misuse this Forum for too much political self-exhibition. Be it for or against people who ant to become President, Chancellier, Prime- or First Minister, Bundesrat or however those titles are called. Also, the minds of many here can be hurt with contributions like the above, We might even have users among us who think the 11. September has been a truly heroic day.

How would you like if I start a theme asking why the allied forces have bombed Dresden and other German Cities at a time when the war was technically over and there was absolutely no strategic reason for this show of joy at destruction by a group of war mongers, led by a certain Mr Churchill?

[Qqmike]

GG says: "Actually, you can tell a lot about a person by the company he chooses to keep," Old-fashioned thinking, that is! :-) Nothing could be further from the truth. I agree with Jonas and whatthefunk (Post #27 is good) about the fallacy of guilt by association. (I can only imagine who some of the whacko far-right extremers are associated with ... and what about 2-stage associations ... he golfs with Johnny Gay who is best friends with Killer Mary ...)

oshunluvr, Post #20, perfectly well said, except I'm not quite as skittish about Abama as you might be. Right on with this: "I'm way more afraid of the far-right-wing pysco so-called Christians in this country that have taken over what's left of the Republican party - funded by the Koch brothers through the 'Tea' party - than I am of any Muslims I've ever met or heard of..." And this" ... the Bushes and their fellow carpet-bagger criminals ..." People don't see it. They will vote for a Bush or a Romney/Ryan, but don't see the danger of any of this. Ryan is way the hell out there.

Arron, as for censorship ... many of these posters are from America or Britain or Canada or other democracies. THAT is what we do: freedom of speech! We freely talk, say things, exchange views, listen to others' opinions. Gotta be tough and suck it up. Or, we could all install Duck Tape to our mouths and sit and stare. And you have the right to ask us to knock it off!

[Qqmike]

why can't I edit my post! can't format the damned thing!
Edit: I fixed it but had to switch from WYSIWYG (which I THOUGHT was the way to go) to a Basic Text Editor (in my profile settings).