Message for Woodsmoke....

[ardvark71]

"In 1894, a writer estimated that every street in London would be buried under 9 feet of manure in 50 years. In 1898 the 1st international urban-planning conference convened in New York. It called quits after 3 days, instead of the alloted 10, because delegates could not see any solution to the growing crisis posed by urban horses and their output."

That is until inventors of the day came of with something called "The horseless carriage" which solved this little problem.

(Snowhog might appreciate the clip, it's up in his neck of the woods.)

Regards...

[woodsmoke]

Yes and all without a government intervention! lol

woodsmoke

[vw72]

Yes and all without a government intervention! lol

woodsmoke

Other than those government built roads, you mean?

[woodsmoke]

I was specifically addressing the car, not the road, buuuuutttt since you mentioned it:

Before the federal government began financing highways in the 20th century, that role was assumed by state governments and the private sector. Private turnpike companies built thousands of miles of toll roads across the states during the 18th and 19th centuries. The first private turnpike connected Philadelphia and Lancaster in 1794 and, by 1800, 69 turnpike companies had been chartered in New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Virginia, and Maryland.3 The movement continued throughout the 19th century, with many toll roads created in the mining states of Colorado, Nevada, and California. The financing of turnpike companies was entirely voluntary, except in Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Virginia where some state subsidization occurred.

There were upwards of 2,500 companies that operated private toll roads in America in the 19th century.4 The total length of those roads was 30,000 miles or more. The investment in New England in the first part of the 19th century comprised a higher proportion of the overall economy than did governmental investment in the Interstate Highway System in the 20th century.5 In Britain, there were 1,116 turnpike trusts maintaining 22,000 miles of toll roads by 1830.6 These companies were financed almost entirely by private capital.

From here.

HOWEVER.....the real, not the one by Barry Commoner, tragedy of the commons reared it's head in our fair state. As of a few years ago we actually had more paved road surface than California.

And that was, in great part, because of the milk industry. To facilitate moving the milk to the city, the state offered to go "halfies" on building a "farm to market road" for all areas that paid their half. In almost all cases, the farmers saw the advantage of that and paid up for the section that was connected to their particular farm. However, not all did and, even today, there are sections of road that are paved and then dirt, then paved.

Whether that would have happened if the roads had been "halfies" with a private entity I do not know.

Acutally, the "vaporizing" carburetor, "jet" was invented because of driving over the ground where there were not roads. The original design just had a hand pump and when the car was on "the pavement" it didn't vapourize.

woodsmoke

woodsmoke

[SteveRiley]

A system of private toll roads sounds abominable. I'd much rather keep what we have now: a publicly-funded system, for use by the entire public.

[bsniadajewski]

A system of private toll roads sounds abominable. I'd much rather keep what we have now: a publicly-funded system, for use by the entire public.

+1 to that , SR.

[whatthefunk]

A private road system may have worked 200 years ago, but with the complexity of modern cities and transportation networks, it would be a nightmare.

[GreyGeek]

I am old enough to remember the highway system BEFORE the Interstate Highway was built. When I was about 10 or so we drove from Denver, CO to Princeburg, MN on Highway 30.

It was, and still is, a two lane highway along most of its route. It was a white knuckle experience. You are behind a semi traveling 40 mph on a road with a 60 mph limit. Traffic is piling up behind you and the line gets over a mile long at times. The semi won't pull over and let traffic pass because he'd probably spend all of his time parked along the road. The cars right behind you start honking because the drivers want you to pass so they can pass. The problem is that there are so many cars coming in the opposite direction that a gap between cars sufficient to give you time to pull out into the on-coming lane and pass the semi doesn't appear very often. My dad was constantly popping into the on-coming lane sufficiently far enough to see around the semi, and then quickly pop back in before he was clipped by an on-coming car. I always sat behind my dad. Back then air conditioning in cars wasn't common either, so we usually drove with the windows down (the "Mark 4-60" AC system- 4 windows done at 60mph). There were times when I swear I could reach out and touch the mirror on the other car. There was also the thrill of misjudging the distance and after pulling out and accelerating to about half way along the semi before realizing that you won't be able pass the semi before you'd get hit by the on-coming car, so you hit the brakes and hope that the guy behind you hasn't moved up into your space behind the semi. One time, my dad pulled out, was about level with the semi's cab when the semi he realized that the semi coming in the other direction was going faster than he realized. He had no choice but to press on. The semi on the right pulled half off the road, the one coming did the same thing and when dad went between them everyone in the car was screaming. The mirror on my side scrapped the side of the semi, as did the mirror on the right side.

The Interstate Highway system was blessed relief.

If an "interstate" highway system had been built state by state the result would have been a Rude Goldberg situation. Even with Federally mandates specs there was enough leeway for states to still mess things up. Nebraska, for example, followed the specs almost to the letter. Controlled access, rest stations every 40 miles, etc... When you cross into Colorado from Nebraska it's like going from Texas into Mexico. The roads are narrower, any side road just runs right up to the Interstate where someone can just right turn from a dead start onto the highway, road stops are commercial and costly.... and the highway is rough.

[ardvark71]

One time, my dad pulled out, was about level with the semi's cab when the semi he realized that the semi coming in the other direction was going faster than he realized. He had no choice but to press on. The semi on the right pulled half off the road, the one coming did the same thing and when dad went between them everyone in the car was screaming. The mirror on my side scrapped the side of the semi, as did the mirror on the right side.

Wowsers, what an experience!

In Oregon, the state highway, Route 58, that leads to my parents is known for being somewhat treacherous but even still, I've never had any experience like yours in all my years of driving on it. :eek:

The only one that slightly approaches that is when I nodded off (on the same highway) and started to run off the road. Fortunately, the gravel woke me up and I was able to correct in time.

Regards...