Fox news and "others" repoortage on health care mandate

[ardvark71]

There are just too many angry, frustrated people in this country looking for someone or something to blame for their problems

And here was one result of that...



of which a terrible price was paid.

:cry::cry:

[SteveRiley]

IF nothing else, I fear for the future of our kids because without base industry there won't be high paying jobs. Everyone of them will be chasing "service" jobs that won't bring in enough money to even pay the income taxes their parents paid to support the infrastructure, which is already falling apart.

Jerry...imagine it's not 2012 but instead 1812. Now imagine some folks sitting around the pub, lamenting the end of the war and expressing unease about what to do with the remainder of their lives. Now imagine someone says, "Some day, someone will figure out how to emulate birds! A pair of enterprising young men will discover the principles of aerodynamics and invent a machine that allows them to escape the surly bonds of Earth. Eventually an entire business will arise from that, employing hundreds of thousands of people all over the globe, new services will be designed, incredible feats of engineering will occur, and cultures that know little about each other will suddenly be able gain in-person experience."

200 years ago, we'd have called that person an idiot and possibly labeled them dangerous. But instead I'm pretty sure you've figured out what I just described. So why not instead imagine that future generations might experience the same thing?

[ardvark71]

...imagine it's not 2012 but instead 1812. Now imagine some folks sitting around the pub, lamenting the end of the war and expressing unease about what to do with the remainder of their lives.

Hi Steve...

You might mean the beginning of another one and if their lives are going to be cut short, at least for the younger ones.

Regards...

[rms]

Isn't each generation guilty of claiming that the world is going to hell? Or is really happening this time?

Make no mistake, this world is hell. History shows that this statement is a fact and a true one at that. What we can do about it is pick a long spoon while eating soup with Beelzebub.

[Qqmike]

GG does have a good point right now: "IF nothing else, I fear for the future of our kids because without base industry there won't be high paying jobs. Everyone of them will be chasing "service" jobs that won't bring in enough money to even pay the income taxes their parents paid to support the infrastructure, which is already falling apart."

It's happening. Most "average" people without special skills are taking service jobs paying $8-$10 to start, sometimes/often without benefits. Infrastructure needs repairs badly (and that includes alternative energy and Internet development). Many people don't have health or dental insurance, and some who do are paying much higher cash-out-of-pockets. China has problems but is bound and determined to surpass the US in almost everything. Germany is doing good, especially with solar tech. Looks like India is supplying medical and scientific-technical employees to the US. Our educational system--apparently--has failed to teach English skills and basic arithmetic and math skills. On and on. If one of the political parties gets their way, we'll be heading back to the Dark Ages. We have serious problems here. Even with more factories, we must still address civil-social issues stemming from gross wealth inequalities. People can live on hope for awhile, but not forever. Having open, intellectual exchanges on PBS forums about all this is nice, but at some point we need some tangible, immediate, massive action in this country.

[vw72]

Maybe the young folks (who do seem to have some good benevolent, nonmaterialistic values) will be the ones to straighten the mess out--IF WE don't screw it up beyond repair ... or beyond recognition ...

Except that today's leaders that have things so messed up were yesterday's young folks who also had some good benevolent nonmaterialistic values.

[vw72]

IF nothing else, I fear for the future of our kids because without base industry there won't be high paying jobs. Everyone of them will be chasing "service" jobs that won't bring in enough money to even pay the income taxes their parents paid to support the infrastructure, which is already falling apart.

The problem isn't the lack of jobs or base industries. The real problem is the lack of compassion that is so prevalent in today's society.

[GreyGeek]

Lincoln has several free food services and housing units. People without food or shelter can go there and eat, get free warm clothing and have a bed to sleep in free of charge. There they can take showers and get their clothes washed. There are volunteers to wash the dishes and clean up after they eat and wash the bedding and clean the rooms after they leave. Yet, many of those same people can be seen everyday panhandling at the entrance to Walmart, Supersaver and other shopping centers, claiming to be hungry and begging for money. (None of the signs ask for a job).

In about 1/2 an hour I and my wife are going to FoodNet to prepare food for free distribution to anyone who walks in the door and asks for it. It is hard to tell the difference between those who are hungry and need food and those who are exploiting the system, but I'd guesstimate that about half are exploiting it. They have jobs, most are obese, they wear the latest makeup and fad clothing, and many carry smartphones I can't afford. One person I know personally, and respected, has six kids and recently posted a msg asking for a job because their home business failed. He also showed up at FoodNet. My wife and I were concerned and we re-budgeted our money and gave him some to him so, we thought, to help feed his kids. Then we hear he and his wife are going on vacation to North Carolina! You know what they say: No good deed goes unpunished.

Americans have compassion coming out the wazoo. What we also have are exploiters appearing in even greater numbers. The latest exploitation fad, used by faded stars to keep their money and life style flowing between movie gigs, is to "champion" some PC cause and start a non-profit "foundation" (a.k.a. a corporation) with themselves as the sole or major paid officer. Then they have fund raisers preaching the word about the unfortunate <whatever> and begging for money to help. Most of it goes to them.

[SteveRiley]

You might mean the beginning of another one

Er...whoops!...can't believe I wrote such a silly historical mistake when I was wrapped up in making my larger point. Thanks!

Infrastructure needs repairs badly (and that includes alternative energy and Internet development)... We have serious problems here. Even with more factories, we must still address civil-social issues stemming from gross wealth inequalities. People can live on hope for awhile, but not forever. Having open, intellectual exchanges on PBS forums about all this is nice, but at some point we need some tangible, immediate, massive action in this country.

Two thoughts spring to mind.

* We need another Works Progress Administration. Good jobs paying good wages to fix America's sagging infrastructure.

* We need another president with the boldness of FDR. He wasn't afraid to try something, watch a bit, and try again if that something failed. There's way too much political calculation happening behind every.single.decision that it impedes progress.

[GreyGeek]

My biggest concern for the future of America is what will happen when the BRICS, along with Japan, France and some other bigger countries, finally work out their arrangements to drop the US Dollar as a (used to be the) World Reserve Currency. Some countries have already worked out arrangements to trade with each other without using the Dollar as a medium of exchange. By doing so they are saying that the Dollar is worthless.

For the last decade, especially the last three years, the Federal government has been printing money like there was no tomorrow. What the Feds are doing is exporting our financial problems to other countries. When they traded their money for Dollars in order to do business on the world's markets, they devalued their own money. Our country, in effect, robbed them. They've gotten tired of it and by sometime THIS summer or fall the US will no longer be a WRC. When that condition is reached the value of the Dollar will drop like a rock. Think Germany between WWI and WWII. That is why the US military has been undergoing "population pacification" training recently, in cities like L.A., Little Rock, and other places in Tennessee and Alabama. They are training for HERE, not some far off village in the Mid-East.

[vw72]

Americans have compassion coming out the wazoo. What we also have are exploiters appearing in even greater numbers. The latest exploitation fad, used by faded stars to keep their money and life style flowing between movie gigs, is to "champion" some PC cause and start a non-profit "foundation" (a.k.a. a corporation) with themselves as the sole or major paid officer. Then they have fund raisers preaching the word about the unfortunate <whatever> and begging for money to help. Most of it goes to them.

I work for a large religious organization and I know first hand that there are people of compassion out there. Obviously you are one of them, my comment was in regards to the other 80% of the population.

Compassion does not mean giving people a handout, but it does start with treating everyone, black or white, rich or poor, etc. with respect. If we, as a society, don't respect the person, then we, as a society cannot be compassionate.

I would strongly encourage you that even though some unscrupulous person took advantage of you and your wife, to not give up on caring for those less fortunate. Your good deed will not be punished. I would rather be fooled 10 times by somebody who really doesn't need help than to turn away the one person that really does.

[woodsmoke]

Two things:

rms wrote:

What we can do about it is pick a long spoon while eating soup with Beelzebub.

I have not heard that one since I was a little kid! thanks!


Re GG's comment on "pacification" training..

Nobody remember it, but Pres. obama called for civilian national security force, just as powerful, funded, armed as the army..... all forgotten....

If BUSH had said that the lib progressives would have called for his hanging, and what did they say about Pres. Obama...nothing.

Here is the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHmecy94z-M

SR:

I agree about WPA, that kind of thing would be great now, but it would never happen because that would be an open admission of the total unemployment( seeking, which is what is counted, and what is not counted the dropped out and those moved to "disability")

But, on a more humerous note:

Does anyone know how many WPA people it takes to dig a hole?

It takes five guys.

1 guy to supervise
1 guy going to the johnnie loo
1 guy in the johnnie loo
1 guy coming back from the johnnie loo
1 guy digging the hole.

woodsmoke

Miscellaneous reading for the record on unemployement, not necessary to read unless desired:

2011 Total Unemployment Rate, those seeking, those sometimes, seeking, those stopped seeking and those moved to "disability"



For 2011

Official unemployment rate? 9.4 percent. Total rate? 16.7 percent.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/Pa...e-16.7-percent

For 2010:

At least one-in-six in U.S. unemployed or underemployed

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/7033...yment-jobs.htm
This was 2009.........not that 2009 and it has not gone down, just the proportions have shifted.


For 2009 it was 15.8 percent

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/eco...yment_158.html

Actual U.S. Unemployment: 15.8%

This morning's news that U.S. unemployment has hit 13.7 million, pushing the rate to 8.9 percent, tells only half the story of this recession.

The total number of Americans who are not working full-time but ought to be is actually about 22 million, or 15.8 percent, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Who are those other 8.3 million Americans? Call them the unofficially unemployed.

As The Ticker points out each time the Bureau releases the monthly unemployment figure, it does not include many out-of-work Americans.

There are many reasons for this.

The bureau, which is under the Labor Department, cannot use unemployment compensation records to count the out-of-work, because they are not reliable or up-to-date enough. The bureau also cannot count every out-of-work person.

Instead, as The Ticker reported here in December: "In the case of the monthly jobs report, the Labor Department contacts 60,000 households to determine the unemployment picture for the entire workforce, which consists of about 154 million Americans."

The problem with this methodology is that it does not include millions of Americans who are not working full-time who ought to be. Those, in the bureau's words, who are "marginally attached to the labor force."

Those numbered an additional 2.1 million Americans in the first quarter of this year, the bureau said. Alarmingly, that number was up 35 percent from the first quarter of 2008.

Of this number, the bureau categorized 717,000 as "discouraged" workers, or those that have simply given up looking for work for any number of reasons. That number was up 70 percent from the first quarter of 2008.

"Discouraged" workers include a disproportionate number of young people, blacks, Hispanics and men, the bureau said.

On top of all of this, add an additional 3.6 million unemployed Americans who say they want a job but have not looked for work in the past 12 months.

The remaining 2.6 million or so officially unemployed Americans include part-time workers who would prefer to have full-time jobs, those who have not looked for work because of illness or transportation reasons and those who believe they have other impediments.

But even though these workers don't count toward the official monthly unemployment number, they are nevertheless a true weight on the economy.

They don't pay payroll tax, or as much of it as they would; they don't contribute to Social Security or other government entitlement entitlements and they don't spend as much.

The 15.8 percent figure is the highest since the bureau began keeping these figures in 1994. Excluding the current recession, the highest previous rate came in January 1994, when it hit 11.8 percent.

The number was 8.7 percent in December 2007, when the current recession began. That means the number of the unofficially unemployed has shot up 7.1 percentage points since then.

By comparison, the official unemployment rate has risen 3.9 percentage points since December 2007. This suggests that a greater percentage of people are becoming disenfranchised from the workforce than are getting laid off.

By the way, in February, the White House predicted unemployment would top out at 8.1 percent this year, a figure that was blown through the following month.

It has made no call on how high the unofficial unemployment rate will go.

[SteveRiley]

Does anyone know how many WPA people it takes to dig a hole?

It takes five guys.

1 guy to supervise
1 guy going to the johnnie loo
1 guy in the johnnie loo
1 guy coming back from the johnnie loo
1 guy digging the hole.

Are they digging the hole for a neighboring loo?

I agree about WPA, that kind of thing would be great now, but it would never happen because that would be an open admission of the total unemployment( seeking, which is what is counted, and what is not counted the dropped out and those moved to "disability")

Do you really think that someone parked in DC actually thought, "if we implement another WPA, then it's an open admission that something's broken in America, so we better not have another WPA"? I hadn't considered that possibility. I really don't want to belive it. But in fact that's true, then we really have reached a new low.

[ardvark71]

Er...whoops!...can't believe I wrote such a silly historical mistake when I was wrapped up in making my larger point. Thanks!

No problem, Steve, I've had plenty of mind slips myself!

Regards...