I hadn't heard of this speech by Ron Paul before... Amazing...

[Telengard]

Re: I hadn't heard of this speech by Ron Paul before... Amazing...

I'm amazed that the old-school (blue-blood-type) Democrats can even stand this guy [Obama].

I'm astounded at how remarkably similar the Obama presidency has been to that of Bush, despite all the talk of "change". Expanding corporate welfare, worsening international relations, tightening the reins on Americans' liberties, etc.

IMHO, nothing will change as long as we keep electing the same old clowns.

[woodsmoke]

Re: I hadn't heard of this speech by Ron Paul before... Amazing...

And, it may also, to be cheritable, be the opening of the envelopes.

if one considers the predator drone thing. He has just kept on chuckin' those things, letting the military have it's head to find the baddies. And it seems to have worked, at least it seems to have.

Curiously, the lefties have not raised a peep about it, when they were excoriating Bush over it.

But, if one thinks about it much, if he had NOT continued/increased the drones and we had had ANY kind of attack here, he would have been impeached.

In terms of "the military" I think that the only REAL mis-step he has made was pulling out of Iraq. One of the original ideas, downplayed by Bush, was establishing at least some "kind" of "democracy" on either side of Iran.

One must remember that we are still in Germany, which, again, the lefties holler about, but..... for something like 8 years after cessation of hostilities in Germany after WWII there were still. "terrorist" / "old guard" attacks on the infrastructure etc.

The other reason, being, of course, that the Russkies took over half of the country and wanted it all.

Now, it looks as if Iraq may devolve into sectarian strife, the Christians have been told to leave in no uncertain terms or be killed, and the killing started a few days ago.

Yes, we are still in neighboring countries, but he couldn't possibly go back in without some kind of direct thread or a request by "the people" of Iraq.

Or...it "may be".......that the CIA(detested of the left) and "Homeland Security(which apparently is deployed world wide) may be sitting there as covert ops to kill the baddies that may threaten us and we never hear about it.

But....it may just be that Bush, and Clinton, left him a bunch of envelopes.

woodsmoke

[blobfish]

Re: I hadn't heard of this speech by Ron Paul before... Amazing...

In terms of "the military" I think that the only REAL mis-step he has made was pulling out of Iraq. One of the original ideas, downplayed by Bush, was establishing at least some "kind" of "democracy" on either side of Iran.

Obama didn't want to pull out of Iraq and tried very hard to stay. Iraq was not going to give immunity to the US soldiers any longer. More here. http://www.salon.com/2011/10/23/wiki...war/singleton/.
Spreading democracy is a sales pitch. The USA has supported many pro-american, non-democratic governments in the middle east over the years. Enough that there is a lot of negative sentiment towards the USA and democracy might cause an american backlash. More here http://www.salon.com/2012/01/02/end_...nse/singleton/

[SteveRiley]

Re: I hadn't heard of this speech by Ron Paul before... Amazing...

Read these...several possible reasons to reconsider rabid support for Ron Paul. Much of his thinking appears stuck in the paleolithic era.

[woodsmoke]

Re: I hadn't heard of this speech by Ron Paul before... Amazing...

I agree completely Tanderson, my post was not the best, I was trying to be "pithy".

woodsmoke

[dequire]

Re: I hadn't heard of this speech by Ron Paul before... Amazing...

Read these...several possible reasons to reconsider rabid support for Ron Paul. Much of his thinking appears stuck in the paleolithic era.

He does address mistakes he's made in the past sort of. And admits he's made them. mainly. If I assume that I'm a very different person than I was 20 years ago, I'm personally OK with it. YMMV.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/paul...-radio-caller/

[GreyGeek]

Re: I hadn't heard of this speech by Ron Paul before... Amazing...

Read these...several possible reasons to reconsider rabid support for Ron Paul. Much of his thinking appears stuck in the paleolithic era.

But only by ignoring all his other odious points of view, offensive, disgusting, hate-filled points of view, can Ron Paul be defended. To ignore those is to condone racism, homophobia, anti-semitism, 1%erism, anti-environmentalism, victim-blaming, social safety net-shredding and conspiracy-mongering.

Ah, classic socialist PC jargon! So much of it in so short a sentence. Almost pure code words from beginning to end.

I've never met Paul, and have read only those documents supporters and detractors point to. But, I can pretty much say from what I've seen that he is not afraid of Gay people, nor does he hate or fear non-whites. The rest of his views can be understood if you understand Libertarian the POV. There are also photos of Paul standing next to people who are subsequently identified as white supremacist. But, with photos like that I can prove that Clinton is a gangster, and Obama is friends of party crashers. The problem I have with the Libertarian POV is that it would return us to the "Robber Baron" period of our nation, when corporations had even more control over government than they have now, if that is even possible.

BTW, I looked for examples of Pau's racism and found these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehUWdgJ7afY
http://www.5k.com/

Political smearing is the norm these days. Remember the Palin interview in which she said, "There are places in Alaska from which one can see Russia."? In an SNL skit that was twisted into "From my house you can see Russia", which was sited repeatedly by the Left to "prove" that Palin is ignorant. You can still easily find clips of the interview question and the SNL skit on the Internet. Palin has been playing the political situation to generate a tidy million dollar plus income while avoiding any political commitment, other than as a "commentator". Is that what stupid is? SNL also broadcast a skit which correctly identified the cause of the housing bubble crash, and who warned about it early on, but good luck finding a copy of that. NBC removed it. Did they do that because it identified ACORN and Obama's role in the crash? (Getting the Community Restoration Act passed, and later getting Clinton to sign the extension which forced banks to give NINJA loans in order to get federal business.)

The problem is that the current political environment is TOO EASILY MANIPULATED, just like photographs and videos, so one cannot trust any views presented from anyone. The result is that the hardcore will vote for their person regardless, but the rest will toss a coin.

[Qqmike]

Re: I hadn't heard of this speech by Ron Paul before... Amazing...

Just this ...
Hard to believe that THIS (the Republican candidate list) is the best America can come up with from its conservative party? And, many far-right, true whack-jobs have dropped along the wayside (Palen, Bachmann topping the list). Where does the Republican party find these creatures?

Of course, "the best America has to offer" would probably never run for the filthy game of politics, either Republican or Democratic.

[SteveRiley]

Re: Re: Re: I hadn't heard of this speech by Ron Paul before... Amazing...

Of course, "the best America has to offer" would probably never run for the filthy game of politics, either Republican or Democratic.

Bingo. American politics has become so toxic and ruinous that it repulses our brightest and most innovative thinkers. So who's left? Only morons who bathe in self-aggrandizement.

The American voter shoulders much of the blame for this. More than anything else, I loathe the "Who would you rather have a beer with?" question. It's a sign of the rampant anti-intellectualism currently gripping this nation.

We should be ashamed of ourselves for putting anyone other than the smartest folks we have in positions of power.

[dibl]

Re: Re: Re: I hadn't heard of this speech by Ron Paul before... Amazing...

The American voter shoulders much of the blame for this. More than anything else, I loathe the "Who would you rather have a beer with?" question. It's a sign of the rampant anti-intellectualism currently gripping this nation.

We should be ashamed of ourselves for putting anyone other than the smartest folks we have in positions of power.

+1

There are reasons why our best and brightest citizens are NOT attracted to the office of President. It's a shame -- if we honored the position, and did not insist on degrading the occupant of the office, we might have reason to hope for more qualified applicants.

A few years ago, I had a conversation with a man who is now a prominent member of Congress. I asked him whether he would be interested in running for President. He described the job thusly: "You sit in a cage, naked. For 12 hours a day, strangers walk by your cage. Each stranger has been given a pebble, and is able to throw it at you, through the bars of the cage. So you get "pebbled" for 12 hours a day. You get to sleep overnight at the White House, then you get up the next day and go sit in your cage again."

"No Way" was his answer.

[woodsmoke]

Re: I hadn't heard of this speech by Ron Paul before... Amazing...

Well, when one has the situation of the "parents at home" have an intuitive sense that maybe history is important and can see, maybe subconsicously, that people are just blathering or doing talking points but still have a basically conservative view of life, in a variety of ways....

And the schools are overwhelmingly liberal ..... and started the process of rewriting history about fourty years ago...

An example that is ongoing as we speak is that the whole thing about Mercury being toxic and that it undergoes what is called Biological Magnification is being PURGED from the textbooks the last two years....and that twisty bulbs with mercury in them are being touted...

what is one to expect?

The parents are basically "conservative"....one should value what one's parents say...

And then Gore says in a speech to "valedictorian" students that their parents are stupid and listen to the schools...

and the schools are overwhelmingly liberal....

So...rewriting history and saying parents are stupid listen to the teacher... started about fourty years ago and is now crying full throat in the schools.


it has created and is now creating a rather schizophrenic situation for the students....

And, what if....oh my gawd..... there is a full bore Republican congress and a president.. the DOE is abolished the commissions to rewrite the textbooks are shut down....

And we swing back the other way....

history be dam@#$ as long as it is MY turn to re-write history...

Because "carefully researched information" is the basis of all good thought.

woodsmoke

[GreyGeek]

Re: I hadn't heard of this speech by Ron Paul before... Amazing...

+1 Steve.

I would have written that, Steve, but you beat me to it!

I would add that most of them have another goal, self-enrichment. That's why they excempted themselves from the insider trading laws, and immediately after they adjourned closed senate hearings, supposedly about some problem with the banking or stock industry, they made handsome moves in the stock or real estate markets. That's how the majority of them can raise their net work from $0.5M to $5.0M in less than 4 years.

In Nebraska, our two term Dem Senator, Nelson, announced that he wouldn't be running for a third term. He and the DNC spent millions in our TV market trying to turn around the truthful image that "Kickback" Nelson, whose vote saved Obama's health care, wasn't responsible for it. They failed. In fact, the ads made Nebraskans angrier.

But, a real shocker was Fortenberry annoucing that he wouldn't run for Nelson's senate seat, leaving it wide open for our AT, Bruning. So, as one pundit put it, in January of 2013 Nebraska will seat a 100% Republican Congressmen and Senators for the "first time since Adam and Eve".

[HalationEffect]

Re: Re: Re: I hadn't heard of this speech by Ron Paul before... Amazing...

The American voter shoulders much of the blame for this.

It's not too different here in the UK, but I don't blame the voters; I blame the system.

The Wikipedia entry for a particular South Park episode pretty much sums up my attitude to elections, voting, and politics in general:

Stan does not see the point in voting between a douche and a turd as they are exactly the same in his opinion, and declares that he will not vote at all, much to everyone's dismay. Stan is equally dismayed, wondering why anyone would care about such a pointless exercise.

teaches him that an election is always between a douche and a turd, because they are the only people who suck up enough to make it that far in politics

[GreyGeek]

Re: I hadn't heard of this speech by Ron Paul before... Amazing...

It also suggests that we cannot elect better people because the ones we elect are no better than ourselves, or just as bad, depending on your perspective.

[HalationEffect]

Re: I hadn't heard of this speech by Ron Paul before... Amazing...

I'm in favour of a system like demarchy. Though not without its flaws, I suspect that they would prove to be fewer and less severe than current systems of representative democracy.

A character in one of Ken Macleod's novels expresses it thusly:

Drawing lots is fair, even if it sometimes throws up a freak result. With elections you're actually building the minority problem right in at every level, and lots more with it — parties, money, fame, graft, just for starters. What chance would that leave ordinary people, what chance would we have of being heard or of making a difference? Elections are completely undemocratic, they're downright antidemocratic. Everybody knows that!