Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

[Jonas]

Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

Here in Sweden "we" celebrate xmas at 24th but then again, this far from the vatican we are somewhat pagans I stopped celebrate xmas 10 years ago, to be honest I hate it all, and most of my relatives live in the same city so I can see them any time I like. I don't have children, but if I had I'd give them a opportunity to choose belief.

Hey Mazal, sounds like you were "born again". Catholic? Evangelical?

Christian. I physically died during a heart attack. And what I saw , horrible , I was on my way to hell. Only the grace of God saved me and brought me back.

I'm really glad that you are here alive and discussing with us today and I could be wrong, but wasn't there a team of nurses and doctors there also?

@SteveRiley and Qqmike - I like reading what you are saying

If I'd celebrate anything around december, it'll be Festivus! "Festivus is back! I'll get the pole out of the crawl space!"

Happy Festivus

[Mazal]

Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

...
My heart stopped , my soul left my body for a little while. I saw what I saw and was brought back. ....

Mazal, I am not, and I doubt anyone else posting in this thread is either, attempting to dissuade you from your Faith, but I would exhort you place your Faith on something stronger than assumptions about a near-death experience. Paul wrote "I am not ashamed of the Good News of Christ, for it is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes; ...". Perhaps a more complete understanding of the "Good News"?


Four years ago my wife under went open heart surgery and was on a heart-lung machine for 5.5 hours as the doctors attempted to repair her Mitral valve. It took 3 tries and a cow valve to fix her heart. During those 5 hours her heart was stopped, but she was not dead. People whose heart had stopped have been sustained by CPR for considerable lengths of time, until their heart was restarted or they were placed on mechanical devices, and they were not dead.

An individual can lose considerable parts of their body and survive ... both legs, both arms, sections of the intestine, most of the stomach, the spleen, the gall bladder, the appendix, one kidney, the bladder, one lung, two of the lobes of their liver, both ears, both eyes, their voice box, and half their brain. And they would survive.

As cells are removed from an individual at what point do they cease being human? Conversely, when exactly does a fertilized egg become human if not at the moment of fertilization? We seem to have no difficulty in recognizing the unborn Eagle as an Eagle, but the unborn human is a "product of conception"?

I've often wondered in which part of the body the "soul" resides. Obviously not in the parts mentioned above, because after their removal the individual is still alive, and if alive is still the possessor of a soul according to all religious doctrines I've studied.

I've also wondered exactly when the soul inhabits the body following fertilization of the egg with the sperm. What if, before the gastrula stage, a physical or chemical shock causes the morula or gastrula to split into two balls? Does the soul divide too, or does it go with one clump and a second soul arrives to inhabit the other clump? It seams that if the organism divides after gastrulation, when cell differentiation takes place, either one or both clumps die, or one becomes the chimera of the other, which gives rise to women whose can give birth to children which show no DNA relationship to her.

The more one knows about science the great the Faith it takes to hold onto religion. However, like sausage being made, the same can be said about science, except that many scientist and most laypersons don't realize just how much faith they use when explaining the physical world, or accepting scientific explanations.

EDIT: It is in the early morning hours of Christmas and after I save my posting above I realized that I had hit the "Modify" button instead of the "Quote" button, thus destroying Mazal's original post. So, the quote above is from Mazal's post, not by me. So sorry. I shouldn't have responded so far past my bedtime.

Most of his thoughts are in previous postings by him.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

.... the families of most of the Indians I know (and I know a hundred or more on a first-name basis) made a sincere effort to include Catholicism in its Indian-spiritual practices, practicing each, side-by-side, even decorating half their church traditional Indian-style, half with Christian icons.
...

History repeating itself.

One of the earliest transformations of the Christian religion occurred when the church in Rome was, to put it bluntly, over run with a flood of pagans when the Roman Emperor declared that Christianity was now the state religion. Prior to that declaration the usual arrangement for churches (eccleseia - the a group of people "called out") was a group of locally elected men to serve as "Elders" (a.k.a. "Bishops") who taught the local church, a group of deacons (both men and women), who administered to their needs and also preached in the surrounding community, and the congregation itself. Singing was usually antiphonal, with the occasional instrument, although few churches could afford such. After the flood of pagans things began to change. Instead of a group of Elders, one Bishop rose to rule them all, "VICARIUS FILII DEI". Instead of praying to God through Christ, they began to pray to God through "intercessors", and the prayers were represented by swinging incense burners. The "intercessors" were called "demi-gods" and numbered around 250. Their statues ("icons") lined the "sanctuary" at ceiling level. Instead of deacons a group of women called "Nuns" served as "brides" of Christ, instead of Vestal Virgins to the Emporer, but the black and white habit was the same. This occurred in most churches in Roman occupied territories, which eventually had various "councils" to settle matters of controversy and to elect one Bishop as head over all the other Bishops, who served in Rome because it was the seat of temporal power. If a pagan of the first century were to walk into a catholic church practicing the Latin Mass he would probably feel right at home, although the names of the various elements would be different.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

...
If you are an atheist, respect the theist. If you are a theist, respect the atheist. Because it is only by respecting each other that we can successfully co-exist. As Jesus said: "Agree with thine adversary quickly."
...

Excellent advice.

[Jonas]

Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

@Jonas , yes obviously. It happened in hospital. There were nurses a doctor and my ex-wife also.

So why not thank them? Why neglect their work and effort in favor of god? I'd call that ignorance

[bsniadajewski]

Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

Arguing the bible is a very pointless task for both sides. You don't know what a person has experienced, you don't know what kind of knowledge an atheist, anti-theist, or a Christian possesses. As an apologetic, I've realized time and time again the fruitlessness of my task when trying to reason with an anti-theist. However, they often don't realize the pointlessness of their specific arguments with me.

It usually ends up in a disrespectful free-for-all with neither side getting headway.

I will say this: A true Christian knows that faith is the only reason he needs to believe in the bible and a true atheist sees the value of theism and respects it for what it is. Anti-theists and religious fanatics are the equivalent of thugs, having no respect or understanding for others beliefs and aren't deserving of any respect.

If you are an atheist, respect the theist. If you are a theist, respect the atheist. Because it is only by respecting each other that we can successfully co-exist. As Jesus said: "Agree with thine adversary quickly."

+2

Mazal , I know you're Christian (as you said so), but I was asking to which church or denomination (Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Mormon, Presbyterian or just non-denominational) you belong.

@Jonas, God most likely worked through the doctors and nurses to help revive him.

[de_koraco]

Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

What happened to me is what happened to many others and is described as "near death" experience yes.
I describe it as I died. My heart stopped , my soul left my body for a little while. I saw what I saw and was brought back. Call it or describe it as you like. It is still the truth and no amount of worldly cleverness can take it away.

Are you also selling a book or do you have a website? Do you have any drawings of hell?

[Mazal]

Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

@Jonas , yes obviously. It happened in hospital. There were nurses a doctor and my ex-wife also.

So why not thank them? Why neglect their work and effort in favor of god? I'd call that ignorance

No my friend , ignorance is what you all are living in. People should repent and turn back to God.
The greatest trick satan ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist and in so doing convincing the world that God doesn't exist. It pains me to see how many souls he is taking to hell with him.
There is only 1 truth and 1 way and that is Jesus Christ.

I am gonna remove myself from this community now as I will no longer be part of or look at the slander that is going on here and don't want any part of the judgement that is gonna come for it.
I leave you though pleading that you people stop living in your ignorance in the world's rules and ideas and that you repent and turn to God through Jesus Christ our Saviour. Please , please , please. Don't let satan drag you to hell with him by believing his lies.

[woodsmoke]

Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

Mazal should take a looksee at Ubuntu Satanic edition.

Or maybe the archives of the flame wars over whether there should be Christian avatars at Ubu forums a few years ago.

Sometimes a little perspective removes the stye from the eye.

woodsmoke

[ardvark71]

Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

I leave you though pleading that you people stop living in your ignorance in the world's rules and ideas and that you repent and turn to God through Jesus Christ our Saviour. Please , please , please. Don't let satan drag you to hell with him by believing his lies.

This is it precisely...and I couldn't agree more.

Regards...

[SteveRiley]

Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

I describe it as I died. My heart stopped , my soul left my body for a little while. I saw what I saw and was brought back. Call it or describe it as you like. It is still the truth and no amount of worldly cleverness can take it away.

Neuroscience can explain this phenomenon with increasing accuracy. Susan Blackmore and Michael Shermer, among others, have studied the highly unusual mental states of those near death. Jill Taylor, a neuroanatomist, chronicled the truly bizarre states of her own brain while she was having a stroke -- an ideal position from which to evaluate the physiology of the misbehavior of electrical systems that control synaptic impulses. Science is capable of understanding your perceptions.

You see this is what is so good about being a christian and knowing the truth. I don't need a whole heap of worldly facts and stories to try and convince myself what I am telling myself and others are the truth. I did die my friend , call it a near death experience then if you want to be critical or more correct.

But it's exactly the "heap of worldly facts" that are the truth. Cardiac arrest, or "clinical death," can be reversed if medical action is taken within a very short period of time. Post-arrest resuscitation is one of the many thousands of medical advancements enabled by science; this is precisely why you remain alive today.

The greatest trick satan ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist and in so doing convincing the world that God doesn't exist. It pains me to see how many souls he is taking to hell with him.

As with anyone making any kind of claim, the burden of proof rests on the person making that claim, not on the person doubting it.

I will no longer be part of or look at the slander that is going on here and don't want any part of the judgement that is gonna come for it.

This thread, unusual as it may be in a Linux forum, has represented what we strive for at KFN: respecting individual people even if we disagree with individual ideas. Before writing this paragraph I re-read the entire thread. While the discussion has its sharp points, I disagree with your assertion that slander has occurred. Nevertheless, wouldn't the almighty that you worship be fully capable of mounting a vigorous defense through you here on the forum, just like the vigorous revival you claim it delivered on your deathbed?

If you feel you must leave us, that's certainly your prerogative. Thanks for spending a few months here.

[DoYouKubuntu]

Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

Good News [religion-wise]? Here's some, DYK-wise:
US to adopt strict new limits on chimp research
http://my.earthlink.net/article/hea?...5-51554a5169c0

This is such great news. Thanks for posting the link.

The Bible? Best not to get mixed up or mixed in here.

Oh why not?!

I do not wish to get into it here too much but to outline: written long after the death of Jesus; from memory, hearsay, and stories, no true documentation as we know it; many contradictory passages, though many that are consistent; written FOR followers, for inspiration; never ever meant to be taken literally, written as poetry, symbolism and metaphor [the Ark?], and "story"; written by man (yeah, I know, inspired by the Holy Spirit ... proof of that?); never meant to be a text or an encyclopedic reference of any kind; and as my friend Fr. J. was fond of reminding people, we have no idea what Christ really, actually said!

I love how you explained that. I remember as a child--forced to go to church/Sunday school every week--it occurred to me at some point that NO ONE could actually prove that the Bible really WAS the word of God. I somehow figured out--despite what I was being told--that it was, in fact, written by plain old humans, and that it MUST have had their spin, and that it was, at best, a written record of stories that had been passed down...and down...and down... You know that party game where person #1 whispers a sentence to person #2, then #2 whispers it to #3, and so on? By the end of the line, the sentence barely resembles the original! THAT'S how I saw, and still see, the Bible.

<< snip >>

Religion is a personal thing. No one should criticize someone for their spiritual beliefs. However, a spiritual belief is not scientific evidence.

Exactly. There's a huge difference between actual evidence and just saying it's so because you BELIEVE it is.

Belief is a powerful thing. Whatever you believe to be true for yourself becomes the truth for your experiencing-in-this-world. And it doesn't matter what you belief. Believe it hard enough and it becomes true for you and you will find plenty of "evidence" to support it. (As in: you can heal with belief. Any doctor knows this. It's called the placebo effect and is a valid, smart tool to use at times.)

That reminds me of an episode of Our America with Lisa Ling about faith healers. My heart ached for some of the people who were so wrapped up in their faith, so absolutely certain that God was going to cure them (of paralysis, cancer, etc.), only to get NOTHING. Just sad.

I've already said too much, I'm afraid ...

Say more if you'd like.

[SteveRiley]

Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

@Jonas, God most likely worked through the doctors and nurses to help revive him.

But what about the unfortunate people who actually did die in that hospital on that day? Or other hospitals, or other days? Is Jehovah selective?

Apparently so: 36 people died when a plane crashed into a street market in Congo in 2008. Most of these were on the ground. All four members from a family of missionaries aboard the plane escaped the burning wreckage. "I think the Lord has a plan for us, otherwise we wouldn't have survived," said the father. Apparently those unlucky suckers who were shopping at the market lacked similar divinely-blessed futures.

[ardvark71]

Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

Do you have any drawings of hell?

Hi...

Please see the second link in my signature. Bill Wiese has an incredible testimony to share about hell. See here or here for the video version. I cannot stress enough that everyone needs to watch this!

Bill's website can also be found here.

Regards...

[de_koraco]

Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

Yeah, but Weise's thing is more pay-per-view like. He quotes excerpts from the Bible and stuff. I'm more interrested in stuff like "and then the five-headed demon greased me up and impaled me on a traffic post" or something like that. Weise's wife is kinda hot though.