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**DoYouKubuntu** · Nov 08, 2011, 12:49 PM

Re: On the dark side, or not?

Originally posted by Qqmike

How about you? Any personal thoughts, impressions, reflections, feelings, experience with this? Have you felt Schadenfreude? Where does guilt fit in (guilt about feeling Schadenfreude)? If you compare yourself to someone (a competitor, colleague, rival) and derive some Schadenfreude seeing them falter or stumble or struggle, how far does it go ... Would you wish to see them totally fail, for example? or how would you feel if they came down with a dread disease and fail to survive it?

I've tried--HARD--to live my life in a way that does not include deriving pleasure from someone else's misfortune. Even people I didn't especially like, I would never wish harm to, whether that be failure in a job, or illness, or losing their home, or anything. And jealousy/envy are not part of my vocabulary! Any time in my life that I've looked at someone else and thought, "gee, THEY have a [fill in the blank]...I wish *I* did, too," instead of feeling jealous I set about figuring out how I could accomplish the same thing they had. So I used their success/good fortune as incentive to get there myself.

If you have a disease or health problem, does it feel better to know that someone else also has the same condition, or that they have their own struggles with some other, different health problem?

I've dealt with A LOT of really serious illness...and it sucks. My most recent big-time illness was a brain tumor and, yes, it did help to know that other people were dealing with the same kind of tumor, the same type of surgery, the same post-op issues, etc. I was quite active on a board dedicated to the type of brain tumor I had, and even met some local members who came to visit me in the hospital after my craniotomy. Knowing that they had gone through the same thing--and recovered and were thriving--was very helpful in that moment. I found myself wishing that [a million] years ago, when I had to have a hysterectomy at 22 to save my life, the Internet had existed and I could've found the same kind of support that's available now.

If so, is that how we as humans confirm/validate that we are, in fact, experiencing a "normal human experience" when we are ill with disease? You can extend this to almost anything in life: seeing people lose their fortunes, lose jobs, suffer mortgage default, and so on.

I just don't get why anyone would derive pleasure from someone else's misfortune. I KNOW that some people do, but I don't understand WHY.

**dibl** · Nov 08, 2011, 01:03 PM

Re: On the dark side, or not?

I never really understood the concept -- there was no one in my young life who took pleasure in the adversity of others. However, when I met my wife, her paternal grandmother was still living, and there was the first example that I noticed. She was a sour, negative, complaining person, and the only times I ever saw her really sparkle was when she was describing the misfortunes of someone else. We bought a house and after I met my elderly neighbors, we were talking at my in-laws one evening and I mentioned the names of our new neighbors. Grandma perked right up, and announced with obvious glee that she had been a high-school classmate of the neighbor lady, but that the gal had dropped out her senior year because she got pregnant and had to get married. I'll never forget how strange it seemed to see her tell that story while smiling broadly and enjoying the memory.

I guess it takes all kinds -- my father in-law was a warm-hearted, generous man, nothing at all like his mother.

**woodsmoke** · Nov 08, 2011, 02:41 PM

Re: On the dark side, or not?

Jealousy, envy, any of that stuff is a waste of energy and time.

Curiously, one sees a lot of it on the media today.and from one side of the political spectrum. witness the people who want part, or all, of "their" money....

There is even a song.....

I wanta be a millionaire...

warning about the lyrics...

If he would get out and WORK instead of wanting what other people have....he could BE a millionaire...

"Society" has always had people who wanted what other people have, witness The Dalton Gang....but the difference now is that we have a whole sector of society which plays on that desire and thinks that they can control the "masses" that they whip up into a frenzy of envy and jealousy.

They think they can control it but they will soon find that they have created a whirlwind of destruction which will consume them also.

But then........the anarchists and Communists/socialists have always wanted it.

As for me, personally, and my family, we work to make money and then give the money away when asked. Kinda hard to be envious or jealous when one has that way of life.

woodsmoke

**DoYouKubuntu** · Nov 08, 2011, 02:53 PM

Re: On the dark side, or not?

Originally posted by woodsmoke

Jealousy, envy, any of that stuff is a waste of energy and time.

Curiously, one sees a lot of it on the media today

This made me think about the Kardashians and the people who look up to them and envy them. How about that TEN MILLION DOLLAR wedding? You know, the one whose marriage lasted a whole TEN WEEKS. What a disgrace to spend that kind of money on a 10-week marriage. Surely they knew going in that they weren't meant for each other, yet they spent that ridiculous amount of money anyway. When I think about what *I* would do if I had a spare $10 million sitting around, I guarantee you it wouldn't include a wedding ceremony--it'd go to organizations I support and care about (mostly animal related). But that's just me.

**woodsmoke** · Nov 08, 2011, 03:04 PM

Re: On the dark side, or not?

Yeppers, a guy at my genulman's club won 74,000 dollars and change on Keno a few weeks ago.

After taxes he collected 30 some odd thousand.

He then immediately gave 3000 to his church, a few thousand to the genulman's club, a few thousand to other charitable organizations and THEN they paid off a bunch of stuff and have some left over for a small vacation etc.

woodsmoke.

**Qqmike** · Nov 08, 2011, 05:32 PM

Re: On the dark side, or not?

I don't want to get too far off track here, but first the easy one ... the Kardashians. I don't get any of that stuff. And to think of the media chasing down the stories, and the sheep that follow with great interest and enthusiasm. The K's are like Paris Hilton, famous for being famous. As for the wedding, if Kim is sincere about having made a "mistake," how superficial of her to get into it in the first place. The K's are smart in a certain way (they get what they want--money and attention); it is the media and the public who have some gears slipping to follow the crap.

As for winning, say $10 million (net), personally, I would give away $9 million right off the bat (not recklessly, but to good causes or to help people in some lasting way such as paying school tuition or something). A no-brainer for me. That might be another interesting topic for discussion: Feelings and philosophy about money and wealth.

And, DYK, " ... instead of feeling jealous I set about figuring out how I could accomplish the same thing they had. So I used their success/good fortune as incentive to get there myself." Along those lines, another way to look at Schadenfreude and envy is this: Assume a person, say John, is prone to Schadenfreude and envy. What then would be the logical extension of John's ungrateful and malicious thoughts? Well, suppose it happens that John wins out, king of the hill; that all the world fell to misfortune and at a level "below" John (wrt whatever criteria we are observing). What kind of world would THAT be?! Not a very good world, not a very interesting world. For example, with money (if that happens to be your thing), knowing that others are doing better than you is an indication of possibilities. Know that lots of folks know more than you do in a certain area is a positive indication of what is possible and a motivator to improve yourself. It would be one heck of a dull world if it all stopped "at John's level" of human achievement. And taking it another way, to what extent does one apply his or her schadenfreude response? If it is a rival, a business competitor, a competing colleague, and assuming your schadenfreude response (in a given situation) is "normal," would you wish the other person dead? would you wish that their business completely fail? would you wish them disgraced and barred from their profession? I think not, I would hope not. Assuming the schadenfreude response is normal, where is the line drawn in its intensity or applied logical extension?

Of course, so far, are we side-stepping the basic issue here: To what extent are "normal" and "good" people prone, by nature, to experience some degree of Schadenfreude? To what extent is this natural in the human population? That is the open question. I think it is more prevalent--at least in a mild, constrained form--than the posts above so far suggest it to be ... ?

**SteveRiley** · Nov 08, 2011, 06:32 PM

Re: On the dark side, or not?

I'm lost. Which one are you guys talking about?

**bsniadajewski** · Nov 08, 2011, 07:01 PM

Re: On the dark side, or not?

You know, the one on the right seems to be out of this world, but a hell of a lot better looking. BTW, there were only four lights.

**Detonate** · Nov 09, 2011, 08:17 AM

Re: On the dark side, or not?

I wish the OWS demonstrators would read this.

**woodsmoke** · Nov 09, 2011, 09:28 AM

Re: On the dark side, or not?

I don't know where the particular article is but a certain news organization actually interviewed the OWS people about "this and that" about what they were protesting and they had absolutely no clue.

A fellow named Marx called those kind of people "useful idiots".

There is also a humourous compare and contrast about Communism and Capitalism:

The difference between capitalism and communism is that in capitalism man exploits man and in communism it's the other way around.

woodsmoke

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