liberal progressive elites look here!!!!

[DoYouKubuntu]

Re: liberal progressive elites look here!!!!

I REALLY don't want to get into, or turn this thread into, a flame war. I'd suggest that we all cease and desist when it comes to political stuff! And, really, mods please feel free to delete my earlier reply if it's too inflammatory. I won't be offended.

[dibl]

Re: liberal progressive elites look here!!!!

I REALLY don't want to get into, or turn this thread into, a flame war.

Funny, I can't remember when the last flame war on this forum happened, if indeed we ever had one. It's the only forum I know of where there seems to be so little antagonism. But, Steve R. makes a valid point -- there are some subjects that are pretty well guaranteed to get someone excited, if you express a strong opinion on one of them.

[bsniadajewski]

Re: liberal progressive elites look here!!!!

richb, you DO have the option of choosing not to click in to this thread, you know. While you are entitled to your opinion, I agree with the first point made by SteveRiley. I find this thread interesting and enjoyable--all of it, even DYK's Reply #25 which I happen to disagree with. The Social/Casual Talk forum is a great place to get to know each other and discuss other-than-technical things in life.

+5

And I also disagree with DYK #25 also.

[richb]

Re: liberal progressive elites look here!!!!

richb, you DO have the option of choosing not to click in to this thread, you know. While you are entitled to your opinion, I agree with the first point made by SteveRiley. I find this thread interesting and enjoyable--all of it, even DYK's Reply #25 which I happen to disagree with. The Social/Casual Talk forum is a great place to get to know each other and discuss other-than-technical things in life.

You are absolutely right and I will follow that advice in the future.

[woodsmoke]

Re: liberal progressive elites look here!!!!

Woah!
I think that anyone who might read this thread, that was not a poster within it, would notice one very important thing.

And that is that.....two too many thats there....hmmmmm that makes three thats...... uh oh...now there are four of......'them'!

What might be noticed is that there seems to be several ways to view different "hot button topics".... and each has a well intentioned proponent thereof ......

And...since I have noticed in that...un oh ! Nobody every really CONVINCES a person of the loyal opposition to change their way of thinking... possibly it is best to let sleeping dogs lie, or lay...or get laid...hmm anyway...

Because, it seems to moi....no matter how MANY of a particular kind of dog is laying in the road.....one will find...that...on another road......there are just as many sleeping dogs of another breed....

and they all seem to do just fine as long as they are napping in the noon day sun.

So.... the thread ended up kind of saying some very GOOD things about the good folks of Kubuntuland!

woodgoingtotakeanapnowsmoke

[ScottyK]

Re: liberal progressive elites look here!!!!

The original comment that I wanted to reply to is several posts above, so I'll just lump all thoughts into one giant post!

My political thoughts can be summed up as follows:

1. Leave me alone.
2. Leave my family alone.
3. I know what's best for my kids, not the government.
4. I'm responsible for the upbringing of my family, not the government.
5. If I screw up, it's solely my fault, not the government.

So I guess that puts me in the conservative camp.

What I don't like these days is being called every name in the book because I happened to disagree with the “main” line of thinking.

I'm a Christian, a military veteran, and desire small government.

I'm not an idiot, bigot, racist, hatemonger, etc etc etc.

Which is why I usually don't get involved in political discussions, because life is too short to get into shouting matches with people I don't know. I realize that people disagree with me, but if they explain their positions in a calm fashion without resorting to name calling, I'm willing to listen.

Many years ago I was stationed in Utah with the Air Force, and it was my first experience in living with a different culture than my own (Mormons).

Out there you have the Mormons, and the Non-Mormons. Each people group is really proud out their identity, and let it be known as such.

Usually within the first five minutes of meeting somebody, you'll be asked if you're a Mormon or not.

This is to place you into the aforementioned groups.

Mormons are really proud of being Mormon, Non-Mormons are really proud be not being Mormon, and do everything possible to prove how Non-Mormon they are.

Because I was an “outsider”, I actually got along with both groups, and it confused everybody. It also angered some because I wouldn't stick to just one group.

The point is, it's ok to be friends with the “other” group!

I have some friends who trend liberal. We get along on everything else. We've mutually agreed to leave politics out of the friendship, because we both know we're not going to change the other person's mind.

And I simply don't understand the hatred some people have for Christianity. So some people want to create a “Christian Linux”? Good for them! If others want to create a “Muslim Linux”, again good for them.

Kids are awake, have to cut this short!

[woodsmoke]

Re: liberal progressive elites look here!!!!

Hi scotty,

very well stated reply and....

you wrote:

I actually got along with both groups, and it confused everybody. It also angered some because I wouldn't stick to just one group.

same for moi! lol

woodsmoke

[SteveRiley]

Re: liberal progressive elites look here!!!!

My political thoughts can be summed up as follows:

1. Leave me alone.
2. Leave my family alone.
3. I know what's best for my kids, not the government.
4. I'm responsible for the upbringing of my family, not the government.
5. If I screw up, it's solely my fault, not the government.

So I guess that puts me in the conservative camp.

Would these also fit into your list:

6. I, not the government, can decide what I may put into my own body.
7. I, not the government, can decide what I may do with other consenting adults.
8. I, not the government, can decide with whom I wish to spend the rest of my life.
9. I, not the government, can decide which forms of entertainment are appropriate for me.

[Qqmike]

Re: liberal progressive elites look here!!!!

@SR ... Ha! Don't you know, these things usually go only ONE way with "them" ...

[SteveRiley]

Re: liberal progressive elites look here!!!!

"them"

Careful with those labels!

I agree with ScottyK's five listed positions, which he characterizes as conservative. I'd characterize myself as politically progressive -- and here we are, supposedly opposite, yet sharing certain convictions.

I'm curious how Scotty would feel about four other convictions that are very important to me and also are frequent subjects of heated arguments over the extent of personal liberties.

[dibl]

Re: liberal progressive elites look here!!!!

My political thoughts can be summed up as follows:

1. Leave me alone.
2. Leave my family alone.
3. I know what's best for my kids, not the government.
4. I'm responsible for the upbringing of my family, not the government.
5. If I screw up, it's solely my fault, not the government.

So I guess that puts me in the conservative camp.

Yep, I agree with those.

6. I, not the government, can decide what I may put into my own body.
7. I, not the government, can decide what I may do with other consenting adults.
8. I, not the government, can decide with whom I wish to spend the rest of my life.
9. I, not the government, can decide which forms of entertainment are appropriate for me.

Yep, I agree with those too!

Hmmmmm. I wonder what category I fit into? (besides "agreeable")

BTW, I would not agree with using the government to enforce these values on anyone else who has other views.

[ScottyK]

Re: liberal progressive elites look here!!!!

My political thoughts can be summed up as follows:

1. Leave me alone.
2. Leave my family alone.
3. I know what's best for my kids, not the government.
4. I'm responsible for the upbringing of my family, not the government.
5. If I screw up, it's solely my fault, not the government.

So I guess that puts me in the conservative camp.

Would these also fit into your list:

6. I, not the government, can decide what I may put into my own body.
7. I, not the government, can decide what I may do with other consenting adults.
8. I, not the government, can decide with whom I wish to spend the rest of my life.
9. I, not the government, can decide which forms of entertainment are appropriate for me.

Taken to it's logical conclusion, yes to all four of those. The government shouldn't be telling us things like that.

However if the PEOPLE want to enact laws to govern themselves IN THIER OWN STATE, I have no problem with that.

But that will create 50 different sets of laws! And that's the beauty of it.

I just don't like a federal “one size fits all” legislature that mandates all 50 states will say/do/act a certain way.

No Child Left Behind – a bad idea. Let the individual states figure out what's important to teach.

“Mandatory” health insurance – another bad idea. Forcing it upon me to buy something?

However – if a STATE wants to do it (like Massachusetts), I have no problem with it. I'll simply choose not to live in MA.

The people of a state get together and don't allow homosexuals to marry, it should be respected. Don't force it down upon them by a federal government.

But if a state's populations wants to allow homosexuals to marry, go for it. Just don't expect other states to recognize it.

I know there is the Constitutional clause that one law in a state is recognized in all 50. Can't quote the entire thing, and don't know what to say about it. Maybe it should read that the law of the state will be respected within the state. Homosexuals are married in Massachusetts, but if you cross into Oklahoma, you are not (by our laws). If I move to MA, I have to recognize a homosexual marriage, per the laws of that state.

Basically, let the states decide. Oklahoma fits in with my beliefs and morals, which is why I live here.

A good friend of mine is progressive/liberal, and couldn't stand living in Utah, so he moved to Massachusetts, and loves it. Good for it!

That's one of many reasons why we homeschool our kids. I don't want a one size fits all government teaching my kids, Thanks but I'll do it myself.

If the states were allowed to decide for themselves, I probably would let my kids go to public schools, again since Oklahoma shares many of the same values that I have.

Don't tell me I have to only buy a squiggly lightbulb. Don't outlaw salt and transfat. And don't mandate a certain way of thinking (conservative or liberal).

Let the people of San Francisco have their lifestyle, it doesn't affect me. Likewise what we do in Oklahoma doesn't affect them, so leave us to do our thing (like drill for oil, and dodge tornadoes!).

Kuddo to all for not immediately jumping down my throat for speaking out on what I believe. Christian geeks tend to be a very small crowd.

Looking back at this, maybe I trend more libertarian.

[woodsmoke]

Re: liberal progressive elites look here!!!!

Re ScottyK's post.

if one asks the "average person" what a "Federalist" is, the usual answer is that the person wants the "Federal government" to run things.

And that is a perfect example of how poorly U.S. education works.

How the U.S. gov, state gov etc. supreme court all that stuff works is taught in such a BORING way....

We have to cover ALL topics....can't stint on anything....all information is neutral.....

That U.S. students have not really understood U.S. government for going onto well into 80 years and it got progressively worse in the sixties and is now, really, just a farce.

There is a conspiracy theory that "educationists" do not WANT students to really understand government so that then, the oh so smart educationists, by and large "liberal" and desirous of expanded federal government..can just keep on EDUCATING those stupid people until they are 60 years old.

They(including myself) are....after all....employees of...."the government" although it is "thought of" as "the school". The school depends on taxes from both local, county, state and federal government. The more federal largess a teacher gets the happier he or she usually is, because it frees them from having to actually PRODUCE a curriculum......

they can USE a provided one.

Scotty is, a surprise to most.... a "Federalist".

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/fed.htm

woodsmoke

[ScottyK]

Re: liberal progressive elites look here!!!!

Never thought that by hanging out on a computer forum, I'd nail down exactly what my political "label" is, but woodsmoke is right..

From the site...

Federalism can be seen a compromise between the extreme concentration of power and a loose confederation of independent states for governing a variety of people usually in a large expanse of territory. Federalism has the virtue of retaining local pride, traditions and power, while allowing a central government that can handle common problems. The basic principle of American federalism is fixed in the Tenth Amendment (ratified in 1791) to the Constitution which states:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

[woodsmoke]

Re: liberal progressive elites look here!!!!

ScottyK.

lol, that is a great advantage of Kubu forums to me...I learn something new, and often unusual, every time I visit! lol

woodsmoke