How to Solve Konqueror's Identity Crisis?

[Fenyx]

Before I proceed, let me just make a statement that I absolutely love Konqueror. It is the one app that makes me (want to) stay in KDE. I think it's one of KDE's killer apps, together with Amarok and, IMHO, Superkaramba and KTorrent (although these last two aren't really part of the main KDE... yet). Even KDE's mascot is named after it (Konqui). However, Konqueror has been criticized, both justly and unjustly, on several fronts, even within KDE's own ranks. This thread is about trying to look for a solution to one of Konqueror's biggest problems: it's identity.

Konqueror's Identity Crisis

Konqueror has this huge problem, far bigger and more basic than HTML rendering problems or "spatial file management" features. Konqueror really doesn't know what it is. You don't believe me? Here's a test of how "solid" an applications "identity" is. In one simple sentence containing no more than 2 ideas, tell me what Konqueror is. Can you? Not even Konqueror's official documentation or website can provide one. Not even Konqueror's "About" dialog. Other KDE apps are more or less "secure" in what they are:

Amarok is a music player. Kaffeine is a multimedia/video player. KOffice is a productivity suite. KWord is a word processor. KGet is a download manager, Kontact is a PIM software. The list goes on and on.

But Konqueror is a "Web Browser, File Manager - and more!" And this "more" includes a file pre/viewer, an FTP client, and more, and more, and more!

Unix has this philosophy that Linux is supposed to have inherited. "One app does one job, and does it well". And it seems that most Linux apps do follow this. Unfortunately, it also seems that Konqueror has a blatantly violated this principle. This issue has been raised time and time again by GNOME developers and users, by KDE bashers, and even by some KDE devs themselves, one of whom is none other than Matthias Ettrich himself, KDE's founder.

The most common/suggested solution...

... is to make Konqueror undergo surgery. Split Konqueror up into it's "component" parts: Web Browser, File Manager, and File Viewer. So basically, the most famous solution is to make Konqueror do a Nautilus+Epiphany+File Viewer. However simplistic and easy the solution is, I think it presents even more "identity problems":

1. Keep Konqueror's name or make new names for the split parts? Which component gets to keep the grand title of Konqueror? The web browser? the file manager? the file viewer? Actually, it seems highly inappropriate to call it Konqueror anymore, as it has now been split and isn't as great as it was. The Konqueror has been konquered.

2. Konqueror is more than just a file manager + web browser + file viewer. It is that, and more! So if we were to split up Konqueror into various pieces, we'd probably end up with more apps than we would like. Even Konqueror as a file viewer itself can be split up into viewers for documents, images, media, archives, etc.

3. The solution, IMHO, is based on a misunderstanding of KDE's architecture and how Konqueror interacts with it, mainly with KParts. Of course, Mr. Ettrich and KDE devs definitely know better than me, but still, their positions/views lead to a sort of misunderstanding of how Konqueror works. Most people, both KDE and non-KDE users, think that when Konqueror displays an image, it is using its own built-in image viewing application. Or that when it displaying a PDF, it is using its own PDF/PS viewer. Or that when it browses within tarballs, it is using it's own built-in archive viewer. But this is not the case. What Konqueror does in each case is that it calls the appropriate KPart that is needed. When it views a text file, it calls the Kate KPart. When it views a PDF, it calls the KPDF KPart. Even when viewing web pages, online or offline, it uses/calls the KHTML KPart. And these KParts are not part of Konqueror, nor are they developed together with Konqueror. They are part of their respective programs. So splitting up Konqueror doesn't really solve anything. It just means that there will be a separate application that just calls a different KPart.

4. People presume that the reason why Konqueror is a relatively crappy web browser is that because the devs have their hands full in developing Konqueror as a web browser, file manager, etc. But as I understand it, there are separate developers for KHTML, so that's not a factor.

5. It's bound to turn away some users who have grown to love Konqueror, users who use KDE because of it. I'm not the only one in this, I assure you.

Another probable solution: Profiling

A relatively less-used feature of Konqueror is the profile, where you can customize Konqueror to be almost anything you want. Providing more definite profiles per "component" of Konqueror is another of the alternative to the more drastic measure of surgery. True, it might require more customizing and tweaking, but that burden will mostly fall on the shoulders of the KDE devs or on the distros. But I think it's only superficial problem. Now Konqueror has a different face for different personalities. But it still doesn't know what it is.

My suggestion: change Konqueror's description

That's it. Just a simple solution. After a long-winded discussion of probable solutions, it's quite unbelievable that a much simpler solution might exist. But such a solution does exist. If you think about it, the main problem of Konqueror is that it doesn't really know what it is. What better way to solve that than to unambiguously define what it is. So what do I think Konqueror is?

I think one of the "definitions" of what Konqueror is, from the Konqueror website, best explains my own view:

Konqueror is the canvas for all the latest KDE technology, from KIO slaves (which provide mechanisms for file access) to component embedding via the KParts object interface, and it is one of the most customizable applications available.

My own attempt at a definition: Konqueror is a container that houses KDE's most basic and most powerful components, from the KDE File Manager client, to the KDE HTML rendering engine, to the KDE architecture components KIO and KParts. It's a fully customizable applicatoin that allows the user to work with various KDE components under one integrated workspace.

Why does Konqueror act like a File Manager? Because Konqueror can contain the kfmclient. Why does it act as a web browser? Because it can contain the KTHML engine. Why does it act like an FTP client? Because it can contain the different kio slaves available. Why does it act like a file/image/document viewer? Because it can contain various KParts developed by the different KDE applications.

Do I think that such a view of Konqueror is a bit far fetched? I don't think so. If you look closely, it seems that KDE is going toward a trend of having containers/workspaces that houses various related but separate applications. Kontact is a container for apps in the KDE PIM category, while KOffice is a workspace that houses the different KDE productivity software. There are also some suggestions/ideas that there should be a sort of KDE container for the various multimedia apps, a sort of multimedia software.

One thing I'm not sure of is how this new "definition" of Konqueror would fit in with KDE 4. So far I haven't heard of any plans for Konqueror in KDE 4, and I'm a bit disappointed in that area. I've heard of Plasma and Phonon, Akonadi (KDE PIM), Amarok 2.0, etc. I hope that they do have plans for Konqueror. I'd hate to see Konqui being left out from all the innovation.

What about Konqueror's performance as a web browser or file manager? Well, that's a diffferent story. :P

Just my little off-topic rant. I would probably post this somewhere more KDE-related later on (bugs or KDE-Forum). But for now I'd want to get the comments of one of the most friendly KDE communities.

[askrieger]

Re: How to Solve Konqueror's Identity Crisis?

I regard Konqueror as a file viewer, given the understanding that in Unix, everything is a file. Your file is a directory; konqueror looks like a directory explorer; Your file is a pdf; you get kpdf. Your file is text; you get Kate. And so forth.

You're not obligated to use Konq for anything. You can use Midnight Commander, Amarok, Firefox, Adobe Acrobat, etc instead. In many cases, though, it's faster to just click on something in Konq. I rarely write things into the location bar, so I'm not as familiar as most with all the magic tricks that Konq can do, but that's all right, I just like thinking of it as the old windows explorer on steroids.

Actually, to me, it seems most like an old program called Lotus Magellan, which was overwhelmed by windoze and dropped by Lotus, before some of our active forum participants were born. I just hope that the developerrs don't "improve" Konqueror beyond the point of maximum utility.

[Fenyx]

Re: How to Solve Konqueror's Identity Crisis?

I regard Konqueror as a file viewer, given the understanding that in Unix, everything is a file. Your file is a directory; konqueror looks like a directory explorer; Your file is a pdf; you get kpdf. Your file is text; you get Kate. And so forth.

You're not obligated to use Konq for anything. You can use Midnight Commander, Amarok, Firefox, Adobe Acrobat, etc instead. In many cases, though, it's faster to just click on something in Konq. I rarely write things into the location bar, so I'm not as familiar as most with all the magic tricks that Konq can do, but that's all right, I just like thinking of it as the old windows explorer on steroids.

You're absolutely right. That's what I was arguing for in one thread over at the other forums (here and here). You can even take the "everything is a file" concept further: a web page is a file as well.

Unfortunately, it's because of Konqueror's power and it's "resemblance" to Windows Explorer that makes people disregard concepts such as this, in fear of it being a Windows Explorer clone. They also seem to think that the level of integration of Konqueror with KDE is completely identical to that of Windows Explorer and Windows.

[askrieger]

Re: How to Solve Konqueror's Identity Crisis?

Darn, I had intended to include "your file is a website, you get the konqueror browser.". My Bad.

I agree with your posts over on the Ubuntu Forums.

[Fenyx]

Re: How to Solve Konqueror's Identity Crisis?

I forgot to mention something. Although I personally understand Konqueror to be a file manager, in the UNIX sense of "everything is a file", I don't think it would be good if Konqueror was just called a "file manager" or "file viewer", because people will still look at Konqueror as a web browser when it's used to view web pages. Then you'd have to go about explaining the UNIX philosophy of "everything is a file", an added "task" which should not be Konqueror's to make.

Calling Konqueror as just a file viewer/manager might also introduce some confusion with other Linux file managers (Nautilus, Thunar, etc.), none of which can view web pages or preview other files. People might begin to be confused about the actual implementation of that UNIX principle in file managers.

Just my $ 0.02 again...

[heinkel_111]

Re: How to Solve Konqueror's Identity Crisis?

This is a very academical debate between highly competent computer people: "how do we brand out product." You seem to have an endless need to compare your product with the competitors product. Also, the "one task, one application" slogan is a programmer's way of looking at problems and how to solve them.

I can take the opposite perspective, from the less skilled user's side. I know "nothing" about Kparts. I don't know epiphany and nautilus. In fact, I don't really care about how programmer's look at problems and how they prefer to isolate them and solve them - I am interested in solutions. I prefer the good ones - those that make me forget what the problem was.

This is where "one task, one application" starts to become a hindrance. If you always need to remember all your minor component problems and figure out how to combine those in order to solve your big problems, you will not be focused on the big problem, and chances are you won't work too effective.

There seems to be some sort of agreement out there that the better way of controlling the fast transportation of your body from A to B is a desktop that integrates an energy generation system, energy transfer system, traction control system, directional control system, instant messaging system(!) and vision control systems. It doesn't require a qualified mechanic to operate a car, but it sure does the job reasonably effectively.

I know one webbrowser which may be better than Konqueror imho: opera. But I don't like it more than I like konqueror, why is that?

Konqueror is so nicely integrated with the rest of my programs that I can use it to solve a great proportion of my "problems" or rather, do a many of my computing "chores". Fast. In fact, the marketing slogan "conquering the desktop" (or was that spelled "Konquering") is very descriptive for what konqueror does. Very much of my everyday operations go through konqueror.

If you reversed the questions a little and saw things from another point of view; if you did not always have to kompare your product with what the other OS/distros/desktops have; can you see that Konqueror is really nice? Everyone should have one. Can you imagine the question: "What kind of Konqueror does your system have?" (As in letting the system that works better set the standards?)

The way KDE works in Kubuntu I think is not perfect but I enjoy it as my most effective desktop, and Konqueror is a very important komponent in that. I use WinXP at work. I tried a few other linux distros. None really impressed me the way that Kubuntu does, and I think that is because they don't have such a good konqueror.

"Konqueror is a konqueror, an application that helps you konquer your desktop?"

[Fenyx]

Re: How to Solve Konqueror's Identity Crisis?

You're right. The discussion is a bit academic and probably theoretical. It certainly isn't for absolute newbies. But nobody stays on that level for long.

I'm not comparing Konqueror. I consider it a one of a kind app. But while I don't compare it, others do. Besides, comparison is something you cannot help from happening. Konqueror is KDE's flagship file manager. Once you think about GNOME, you can't help but think about Nautilus, it's file manager. Then it's only natural to compare the two.

The "one task, one application" slogan, as you called it, is not just how programmers view and solve problems. It's also how we, humble users, remain sane. Imagine if your word processor was also your media player, CD burner, file manager, etc? Wouldn't you be confused as well? Some people just can't take such overload.

As a user, you don't have to know about KParts. As a KDE user, you don't have to know about Nautilus or Thunar. You don't have to know about that "slogan". And that's why my "suggestion" was on a more "superficial" level: changing the "official" description of Konqueror. But you don't even have to know that "official" description. For those less interested, Konqueror will continue to act the way it did before. Konqueror will still act like a file browser+web browser+etc. And those less interested will still consider Konquer like that. For those interested, the information is available. Now compare that to the suggestion (not mine) of splitting Konqueror up. Which one would confuse new users more? (Of course, if they did split Konqueror up and gave a different name for each, it would probably not be as confusing).

"There seems to be some sort of agreement out there..." - I didn't get what you meant.

if you did not always have to kompare your product with what the other OS/distros/desktops have; can you see that Konqueror is really nice?

Did you read this part of my post?

Before I proceed, let me just make a statement that I absolutely love Konqueror.

Please don't think that these "criticisms" are mine. The only Konqueror-specific "criticism" I have is that it's "definition" is just a tad too long. Konqueror is... Konqueror is... Konqueror is... etc. That's just it. It's not even a real criticism, more of a slightly insignificant comment. But if you look at the two threads I linked to, plus another one here, you'll see the issues that some people have about Konqueror. And in those threads (except this latest one), you'll also see how I defend, almost fanatically, Konqueror, almost to the point of bashing/being bashed. So don't, for one moment, think that I don't like Konqueror, that I don't think Konqueror is nice, that I think Konqueror is inferior.

Btw, the slogan is "Conquer your Desktop." (http://www.kde.org/)

EDIT: Just wanted to add something:
I think that comparing things, whether be it programs or real life objects, it something that is totally unavoidable. It's just how the human mind works. In order to make sense of new experiences, the mind compares it to previous experiences. It just can't be helped. It can't be helped. There will always be a point of reference. This is coming from me as a philosophy major, not as a Linux user.

Applied to Linux, KDE, and Konqueror, it's quite simple. You will eventually compare it to something, if you haven't already. When you come to Linux from Windows, you will compare them. When you come from GNOME to KDE, you will compare them, too. There reverse is also true.

There is nothing wrong about comparing. At least initially. The error starts to creep in when you limit your current and future experiences by your previous experience. For example, someone comes into Linux with some knowledge of Windows, and start bashing Linux because it doesn't have a "Start" menu, then he/she is totally off the mark. But if he/she says "In Windows, I had to click on the Start button to see my installed applications, what do I need to click in KDE/GNOME to do the same?", then he/she is building up on a comparison based on a previous experience: that clicking on a prominent part of the desktop will provide access to installed applications.

Please don't think that I'm taking your points too personally or that I'm being aggressive. I'm just fleshing out these tiny details for future readers. I do have plans of posting this on a more public (a.k.a. my blog) location in the future.

Thank you for pointing out these "issues", so that I can have the oppurtunity to refine my statements, and even change my views. (Hey, I'm not impeccable. )

[jrsoit]

Re: How to Solve Konqueror's Identity Crisis?

i do have to say one thing, just my opinion though, in reading your posts over at the other forums and reading a bunch more over there, it seems that the gnome users are becoming far less hospitable towards kde users.  Mabey they forgot the meaning of the word "ubuntu", maybe they are just jelouse snobs because now kde and kubuntu are recieving much more attention these days and its taking some of their thunder, who knows, but I like kde, I like eye candy, I like to be proud of my desktop set up, its like my art and kde is my canvase, so that when I show it off people go WOW!!!!! how can I do that, then I can explain the bennefits of linux, not just kde, I prefer to give the user the choice, gnome seems good for new people to linux and computers in general, they gnome wants to hold you hand.  kde is the customization dream for comp users.  Yes KDE IS LIKE windows in a lot of ways, but it is not windows it is linux.  KDE is a windows alternative able to help the transition.  konqueror is also just that, similar to the old windows explorer in many ways as askrieger said, that may be why I like it so much over gnome based apps,  I was and am still a win power user, and I like kde cause it seems familure enough that I dont get overwelmed, but man the power is there!!! and konquerer provides it.
You want a deffinition of knoquerer,
Konquerer is a GUI that allows you to view all types of media through one application.  Wheather it be surffing the web to viewing files and pictures from your camera, almost all files and media can be viewed using the power of the Konquerer system.
There!

[Teppic]

Re: How to Solve Konqueror's Identity Crisis?

But Konqueror is a "Web Browser, File Manager - and more!" And this "more" includes a file pre/viewer, an FTP client, and more, and more, and more!

I don't see this myself, the 'and more' reads as bragging rights as to what the program can do.

Web Browser: This is where the 'identity problem' first falls over for me, yeah it browses the web like it should, then you download something and it asks if you want to use a seperate download manager, no crisis there.

File manager: Well, I can see where people are coming from here, even if I think it's unjust. It functions fine as a file manager, and file previewing I don't consider to be out of character (even audio and video files, tho it does catch me unawares sometimes).' In window' file viewing of pdf's audio and video does overstep the mark a little though, I'll concede on that point. Previewing archives on the other hand is allowed in my opinion, they are just compressed filesystems, and if you preview text files your just using the web browser bit.
Nowadays there is so much network usage for the average joe user, I fail to understand how being able to use net protocols to access remote filesystems stops something being a file manager, your still managing files, that's all an ftp client (to take the example above) does. Even nautilus has ssh and ftp capabilitities, but no one bats an eye.

I can see how people compare it to IE, but I don't because IE isn't an option for me, I compare it to nautilus and how I don't have to press Ctrl-l to type in a path, or how I can have directories open in tabs, or how XFFM confuses the hell out of me, and <obligitory linux user cliche> and I have a choice</obligitory linux user cliche>.

There are two ways to solve this, deny there is a crisis of identity or split it up like kontact and call it a 'file managment suit', but don't take away my choice to use it as it is now, and as it should be in the future.

On the flipside, why does no one complain about evolution? (OK they complain about having to install it when they don't use it, but thats not the point I'm trying to make.)

[Nakrull]

Re: How to Solve Konqueror's Identity Crisis?

i kinda like all ur constuctive critisism
this topic was great lets see if anyone still cares 120 days kinda taking a long shot here

konquerors crisis: why?? does a konqueror have a personality it just wants to konquer (kant get the k out of me )
tried gnome some time but liked the k-desktop-totaly-changeble more
i swithed over from winxp last week
10 years of MS n IE behind of me hopefully forever
and i dont compare konqueror with IE
konq is something totaly diferent it may look like it but thats just grafics
tabing: great web n files in the same prog (no extra mem load for more graphics, fonts , etc) u could almost drag n drop the files from the web into ur hdd (would be great for future konqs)
whats the web/file manager security issue konq isnt fucion.net whit the kernel (right no crashes in konq can kill my sistem) besides linux is almost vir-free (not like Virus Infested Spyware Troyans n Addwared) take the first leters n read just for who doesnt get it is that the future u want or u take konq as it is becouse it great
konq tweaking: jucato here has something to add (think he knows something of kong just ask him how to add some new search options)

as u add new witsh hunt topics elsewhere REMEMBER ur using an UBUNTU BASE
in other words u are people using pcs CONECTED TO EACH OTHER (gnome,kde,dont know many others 8) ) there just like the COLOR of ur SKIN (gamers notice lol) BUT UR STILL PEOPLE who need eachother to make this the greates linux ever

in other word
hail kubuntu long live linux

[yesac142]

Re: How to Solve Konqueror's Identity Crisis?

I'd call it the Desktop SUV.

It's where I'm at at the start and end of any session. It takes me wherever I want want to go; whether that be the smooth highways of my music files or the rugged terrain of posting on slashdot. Its incorporates capacity to haul files from place to place with the convenience to go watch movies at Youtube. It can help me with my shopping online or my sharing at home.

Someone wrote this wasn't really a newbie topic, so please pardon my intrusion. I love the program and thought it'd be fun to take a stab at a description. I'm sure I missed features, but I think the SUV analogy could hold. Konqueror may not be able to do every type of function of a program, but from what I've seen, it has a function for every type of program.

[Jorophose]

Re: How to Solve Konqueror's Identity Crisis?

Having one app that does 349374398 functions can be overwhelming, yes, but the opposite, having 924830984 apps to look for to do your work is just as bad.

Konqueror is kool.

I see it more as a KOffice sort of thing, a regroupement of functions and apps altogether, rather than just a file manager + browser that wants to do everything.

Konqueror could simplify your desktop, too. Just pop it open for whatever you want. Like openoffice.org. No need for a PDF reader, no need for a FTP client, no need for anything else Konqueror can do, at least from the point of view of a simplistic user.

KDE should konsider making Konqueror a regroupement of applications working together at once, and brand it like that, rather than just one that does everything. So it'd be like "KonqueringWeb", "KonqueringFTP", "KonqueringFile", "KonqueringPDF", etc.

I might be running around in circles. So shoot me.