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    #1

    Muon

    I had a little chuckle to myself when I read the BBC's "fact of the day" this morning, shown here and a link for your pleasure:-

    "Carl David Anderson (1905-91) discovered the subatomic particle called the muon in 1936, but no one has yet discovered what the point of it is."

    link next, but it is a "fact of the day" so it'll change tomorrow obviously.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/

    a bit ominous I thought with "Oneric" around the corner, and my spare hdd with oneric beta breaking quite often when muon is played with.
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    #2
    Re: Muon

    Originally posted by pasti
    a bit ominous I thought with "Oneric" around the corner, and my spare hdd with oneric beta breaking quite often when muon is played with.
    I guess, and I'll admit it here in public, I get defensive when I see commentary that isn't clearly backed up with facts, that puts a less-than-favorable light on the Muon package manager. I'm not putting the OP down, so please take this in to account.

    The OP is using an "IN DEVELOPMENT" version of Kubuntu - Oneric - and as with any development version, breakage is to be expected.

    Okay, 'defense of Muon' over.
    Windows no longer obstructs my view.
    Using Kubuntu Linux since March 23, 2007.
    "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." - Sherlock Holmes​
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      #3
      Re: Muon

      Okay I'll admit I missed this, but the FACT is Muon is glitchy in my install of oneric, I realise it's pre release hence me running it on a spare hdd, and submitting crash reports when asked too with a backtrace.

      FACT, I run Muon as my package manager with no problems at all on Kubuntu 11.04, and have fully removed kpackagekit as I much prefer Muon.

      The post WAS supposed to be humorous, and the link doesn't infact relate to Muon package manager, just to a subatomic particle.

      Also why are you getting "defensive", are you the main developer of MUON?, come on it's only software and not a cure for cancer, as you can see I do run it as my only package manager.

      FACT (the last one I promise), I would never dream of making a less than favorable comment about any piece of free software that I use, I truly appreciate that I run a free O/S at absolutely no cost to myself and the fact that I can complete any task that a propriety operating system owner can do but for free and quite often more easily, still (and after eight years of using only linux) amazes me on a daily basis.

      I'm truly sorry if I offended you Snowhog, it was not my intention at all, - pasti out!
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        #4
        Re: Muon

        I wasn't offended, and as I pointed out, "I'm not putting the OP down, so please take this in to account."

        What I get defensive about are comments that "could be misinterpreted" as factual as opposed to opinion, and nothing more. I desire/expect that 'commentary and/or opinion' be identified as such 'for the benefit of others'.

        And no, I'm not the developer of Muon (or anything else). Just a happy Linux/Kubuntu user, here to help maintain KFN as (I see it) one of the best Kubuntu resources on the 'Net.

        So, no need to be sorry, and in fact I apologize for having given you the wrong impression.
        Windows no longer obstructs my view.
        Using Kubuntu Linux since March 23, 2007.
        "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." - Sherlock Holmes​
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          #5
          Re: Muon

          Muon just borked my 11..10 VM install too. Froze at 22% during an upgrade.

          And this is a fact, not an opinion.

          At least it's just a Vm machine, but I won't be upgrading to 11.10 for quite awhile. My personal experience with Muon is it's about 33% stable. Too bad the dev's decided we didn't need kpackagekit anymore.

          Please Read Me
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            #6
            Re: Muon

            I won't dismiss negative observations about Muon, especially from experienced users/observers. I do hope that those observations are being reported to the developer, else how can the cause(s) be sought out and corrected? Jonathan Thomas (JontheEchidna here in KFN and on IRC Channel #kubuntu) is the developer. He is receptive to criticism (critical observation) concerning problems with Muon / Muon Suite. Jonathan's Blog is a good place to keep up to date on what's going on with Muon Suite, and also to leave comments on what is being experienced - the 'good' as well as the 'bad' - by users.

            With the above said, I will admit that I don't use Muon Suite (or any other GUI package manager) to do my package management, not because I find any fault with it, but because I haven't used any GUI package manager for actual package installation, upgrades or removal, since I stopped using Synaptic Package Manager, and before that, Adept Package Manager (before it was dropped). I do ALL package management from the CLI. I utilize Muon Suite (and those before it) to locate packages I am interested in. I keep a log of all package changes I make to my system, and capturing those changes from the CLI is very simple - copy then paste - and in this way, I have a very accurate record of what has taken place. Overly cautious? Likely so, but if/when something goes awry after an installation, upgrade, update, or removal of any package(s), I have the ability to very quickly isolate the likely/probable cause(s), and so, fix the problem. There is another advantage to doing package management from the CLI - simulating the action - which I find absolutely indispensable. Seeing what will happen before it actually happens can save you a lot of grief (as well as time).

            So, the 'observed' negative problems using Muon Suite are not known to me, and I am therefore not 'qualified' to comment on them. I just ask that everyone take the time to let Jonathan know about them.
            Windows no longer obstructs my view.
            Using Kubuntu Linux since March 23, 2007.
            "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." - Sherlock Holmes​
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              #7
              Re: Muon

              Good points. I too usually use apt-get at the cli because I know what I'm installing.

              I really only opened Muon in the Vm because I had read this thread and was in the VM for an unrelated experiment. Unfortunately, the Muon lockup only left me with a reset option and upon reset, the system will no longer allow me to log in and I can't break in because I don't have raw keyboard access to the VM.

              I will say the interface looked better (more informative) than in the past. Hopefully, the full release next month will be a bit more stable.

              Please Read Me
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                #8
                Re: Muon

                Originally posted by Snowhog
                I keep a log of all package changes I make to my system, and capturing those changes from the CLI is very simple - copy then paste - and in this way, I have a very accurate record of what has taken place.
                /var/log/apt/history.log has saved my bacon more times than I can count...
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                  #9
                  Re: Muon

                  Originally posted by pasti
                  I had a little chuckle to myself when I read the BBC's "fact of the day" this morning, shown here and a link for your pleasure:-

                  "Carl David Anderson (1905-91) discovered the subatomic particle called the muon in 1936, but no one has yet discovered what the point of it is."

                  link next, but it is a "fact of the day" so it'll change tomorrow obviously.

                  http://www.bbc.co.uk/

                  a bit ominous I thought with "Oneric" around the corner, and my spare hdd with oneric beta breaking quite often when muon is played with.
                  I giggled some too .. to the fact of the Muon PM and to the fact that science have discovered something without actual meaning or 'value' (yet!)

                  I understand Snowhogs comments and I agree, I haven't seen the downsides of Muon yet - compared to Kpack.Kit, which lack the split between upgrade and dist-upgerade. KPK(stable) broke my system more due to this then Muon ever did in beta stage. I fully understand and agree to the change from KPK to Muon.

                  When comparing none of you mentioned Adept(?) or was there another PM prior to it? To me Muon is light years ahead of anything so far in the K-distros. Since Synaptic doesn't qualify since it isn't a Qt application ... regardless how stable it may be

                  That said .. I prefer CLI in a alpha/beta release and fragrance of choice is aptitude
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stWpR_KpGD8

                  /jonas
                  ASUS M4A87TD | AMD Ph II x6 | 12 GB ram | MSI GeForce GTX 560 Ti (448 Cuda cores)
                  Kubuntu 12.04 KDE 4.9.x (x86_64) - Debian "Squeeze" KDE 4.(5x) (x86_64)
                  Acer TimelineX 4820 TG | intel i3 | 4 GB ram| ATI Radeon HD 5600
                  Kubuntu 12.10 KDE 4.10 (x86_64) - OpenSUSE 12.3 KDE 4.10 (x86_64)
                  - Officially free from windoze since 11 dec 2009
                  >>>>>>>>>>>> Support KFN <<<<<<<<<<<<<
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