Can we ever have a perfect distro? A call to the community

[de_koraco]

Re: Can we ever have a perfect distro? A call to the community

I had read somewhere that PackageKit did not support apt-style purge, hence my comment. Plus, PackageKit is a front-end, not a back-end, to dpkg, apt, or any other base package management system used in Linux.

PackageKit doesn't even come into play when using apt. It's only when using KPK that PK is involved. As for PK itself, you were the first one to mention it as a backend, so I kinda followed

The confusion we have is due to the nature of the thing. PK itself interfaces with package managers on the lowest level, basically telling them what to do, but it also has abilities like updating the cache without elevatig privileges. If that's a front or a back end per se, I dunno, and even the docs, when present, are cryptic. But I don't see how it could affect apt, which does not invoke it in any way when doing a --purge. KPK, GPK are frontends for Packagekit iself, and I think there's even a CLI frontend. I think that most of the gripe with KPK in Ubuntu has been due to the fact that PK, although universal in nature, is much better geared towards rpms. There's been an effort to avoid the problems with it by forking it into aptdaemon, but the only advantage USC with aptdeamon has over it is due to prettier graphics. Since PK has landed in Wheezy, and since Debian is in line with the whole AppStream thing, I think we might be into some good stuff. I hope Canonical get on board with this one, cuz PK just hand down beats aptdeamon.

[woodsmoke]

Re: Can we ever have a perfect distro? A call to the community

GG Balmer on that stage reminded me that he is a perfect example of white man can't jump!

woodcan'tjumpneithersmoke

[GreyGeek]

Re: Can we ever have a perfect distro? A call to the community



But, they sure can sweat!

[Snowhog]

Re: Can we ever have a perfect distro? A call to the community

Late to this thread.

A 'perfect' distro is an imposibility. The simple fact is, if you get two or more people together, the odds of concensus start going down. The greater the number of people, the greater then odds against it.

[oshunluvr]

Re: Can we ever have a perfect distro? A call to the community

Actually Snowhog, it's not unlike a RAID - 2 parties involved doubles the failure rate!

It's an exponential decline...

[saurav]

Re: Can we ever have a perfect distro? A call to the community

I think this thread has gone off-course with most people misunderstanding the question, perhaps because I used the word "perfect." "Perfect distro" here means a distribution that, while being sufficiently modern (not containing software much older than one year), does not cause any serious errors to occur on the majority of hardware platforms. In other words, a distribution that new users or, more importantly, people who are not primarily involved with computers, can use without hassle.

[sithlord48]

Re: Can we ever have a perfect distro? A call to the community

I think this thread has gone off-course with most people misunderstanding the question, perhaps because I used the word "perfect." "Perfect distro" here means a distribution that, while being sufficiently modern (not containing software much older than one year), does not cause any serious errors to occur on the majority of hardware platforms. In other words, a distribution that new users or, more importantly, people who are not primarily involved with computers, can use without hassle.

yes we already have this. kubuntu already does work on most computers, and i can tell you that people who don't know about computers have no problems using it. i have yet to find a computer that it does not work on , ok yes some need drivers, but thats ez enuff to do w/ jockey. also i run install on many systems. i have at least a dozen peoples machines i care for these are people who used to use windows untill i got sick of fixing their problems and replaced their os with kubuntu.

also every distro will contain some software over a year old not all packages have people to keep them up to date.

[oshunluvr]

Re: Can we ever have a perfect distro? A call to the community

I would add to what sithlord says: IMO, most problems with 11.04 are caused by lack of user experience and knowledge. There is the occasional oddball piece of hardware that just won't work but that's becoming less and less each year.

I have installed various forms of Ubuntu on a dozen computers this year owned by people who are not computer people - just users. Not one of those people has returned to Windows. One very old laptop has wifi issues which could be resolved if the owner would bring it back to me. Other than that, all the other units worked perfectly.

A "Perfect" distro would require the ability to anticipate every users needs and be able to operate hardware without any drivers being supplied (most manufacturers don't provide linux drivers or even the details needed to write one). I think we're unlikely to ever reach that goal.

As far as not having any software over a year old: Most linux software is free. How much support and for how long can one expect updates? I'd bet money that every Windows install - including brand new ones - have software over a year old. But really - what makes new software better than old software? Change for change's sake isn't always good. I'll take functional software over new software anytime.

[ardvark71]

Re: Can we ever have a perfect distro? A call to the community

IMO, most problems with 11.04 are caused by lack of user experience and knowledge.

Hi...

I'm not sure this would apply to the rash of Broadcom wireless issues that we've been seeing.

Regards...

[oshunluvr]

Re: Can we ever have a perfect distro? A call to the community

"Knowledge" would include reading all over the internet about the multiple problems with these cards. This is far from new - in fact my first laptop install to an HP with a broadcom wifi card in 1999 introduced me to ndiswrapper. Every time I am asked to do an install to a system with a broadcom device, I research it before I install.

"Experience" would include the understanding that not all devices will work out-of-the-box because manufacturers do not often support linux. If you're planning on using linux, don't buy incompatible hardware and then complain when it doesn't work.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Can we ever have a perfect distro? A call to the community

Exactly!

http://www.linux-laptop.net/

http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-laptop.html

[saurav]

Re: Can we ever have a perfect distro? A call to the community

yes we already have this. kubuntu already does work on most computers

Please read my initial post and take a look at this: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=258916

A "Perfect" distro would require the ability to anticipate every users needs and be able to operate hardware without any drivers being supplied (most manufacturers don't provide linux drivers or even the details needed to write one). I think we're unlikely to ever reach that goal.

No, I am not looking for something that works "everywhere" but something that works on the majority of hardware platforms.

As far as not having any software over a year old: Most linux software is free. How much support and for how long can one expect updates? I'd bet money that every Windows install - including brand new ones - have software over a year old. But really - what makes new software better than old software? Change for change's sake isn't always good. I'll take functional software over new software anytime.

The major components should be relatively up to date. Windows software is, firstly, of a much lower quality and secondly, not developed in the manner of FOSS, so it is not worthwhile comparing with Windows. Indeed, this is another issue I wanted to point out. Comparing our software with Microsoft or Apple or any other proprietary software is not my aim. I want to see improvements in FOSS for the sake of FOSS itself irrespective of what goes on in the proprietary software world.

"Knowledge" would include reading all over the internet about the multiple problems with these cards. This is far from new - in fact my first laptop install to an HP with a broadcom wifi card in 1999 introduced me to ndiswrapper. Every time I am asked to do an install to a system with a broadcom device, I research it before I install.

"Experience" would include the understanding that not all devices will work out-of-the-box because manufacturers do not often support linux. If you're planning on using linux, don't buy incompatible hardware and then complain when it doesn't work.

This is true but it is difficult to get computers that have all components running on FOSS drivers, especially, and keep this in mind, in all parts of the world. For example, where I live, at the time I bought my laptop you would have been extremely hard pressed to have found a laptop that had an Intel Wi-fi chip instead of Broadcom 4311 or 4312.

[arochester]

Re: Can we ever have a perfect distro? A call to the community

Lol! My computers are mostly old stuff. Either bought very cheaply or given to me free.

I was recently given an Emachines 420. I tried to reinstall Windows XP for my son-in-law who plays mostly games

I used my legit Windows XP disk and the product key on the computer. Loaded everything, rebooted, ...blank. Loaded everything again, rebooted...blank.

Crunchbang, Debian Version, Xfce works fine on it.

For me, lessons in Linux are:
1) Don't necessarily aim at the cutting edge of technology
2) Don't be an early adopter
3) Don't go for the whistles and bells if you don't need them. Simple is better.

[saurav]

Re: Can we ever have a perfect distro? A call to the community

Lol! My computers are mostly old stuff. Either bought very cheaply or given to me free.

I was recently given an Emachines 420. I tried to reinstall Windows XP for my son-in-law who plays mostly games

I used my legit Windows XP disk and the product key on the computer. Loaded everything, rebooted, ...blank. Loaded everything again, rebooted...blank.

Crunchbang, Debian Version, Xfce works fine on it.

For me, lessons in Linux are:
1) Don't necessarily aim at the cutting edge of technology
2) Don't be an early adopter
3) Don't go for the whistles and bells if you don't need them. Simple is better.

That is an exclusive case and it happens with every operating system. Just because it is Windows does not mean that we need to keep harping on how Linux is so much better. Everyone knows that it is better. Secondly, the issue is not about staying on the bleeding edge, it is about being able to take advantage of the modern developments in Linux systems on hardware that allows us to do so.

[ardvark71]

Re: Can we ever have a perfect distro? A call to the community

"Knowledge" would include reading all over the internet about the multiple problems with these cards. This is far from new - in fact my first laptop install to an HP with a broadcom wifi card in 1999 introduced me to ndiswrapper. Every time I am asked to do an install to a system with a broadcom device, I research it before I install.

"Experience" would include the understanding that not all devices will work out-of-the-box because manufacturers do not often support linux. If you're planning on using linux, don't buy incompatible hardware and then complain when it doesn't work.

Hi...

However, the issues I'm speaking of (that are appearing on this forum) seem to be exclusively with 11.04. Whereas, with 10.04 and 10.10, they did not exist.

Regards...