Re: Kubuntu 10 & 11 does not install

[esperado]

Just have a look at this, just to set a driver for my graphic card ?
http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/ati.run
http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/catalyst
Are those guys serious ? It is just INSANE ! Are-we in 2011 ?
As long you are in a graphical interface, everything has to be done in a graphical (and easy) way.
Tried a full week with more than 6 clean reinstall + updates to get a kubuntu not working. ( Errors, black screens, stuck system, no network, no double screen, screens at the bad frequencies, fans running at 10 000 rpm, cpu 100%, each upgrade breaks the previous work, goes with 10 new bugs, each change of configuration via the graphical interface breaks something else etc...). And, at the end i was just able to get 11.04 with no double screen, and windows hidden behind the desktop background image, and web pages of firefox refreshing during 20 seconds like one line/sec after a little scrolling !!!!.
Suppressed the virus (chipset, CPUs and GPUs are expensive), Format in NTFS, end of the story, can kill somebody.

Kubuntu looks like a compilation of bugs, errors, unfinished work, non friendly things like this Nano with no save menu !!! (was obliged to google to find the hotkey), the locked numeric pad in bios not set by kubuntu with input boxes for pass which does not show you if they take your key stokes or not, thousand of unfriendly things like that. beginning with something as important for your existing partitions as MBR, hidden in a sub menu during install !!!! (it is a shame)
Kubuntu devs just give, on my opinion, a perfect demonstration of incompetency, and undermines open source. As a dev, i would never publish such a garbage.
Instead of playing with 3D gadgets, transparency, moving icons and other toys, first code a system able to run out of the box on the material the user have. Even recent.
And this forum shows a good image of what i'm talking about.
And if they cannot develop drivers for all existing or future cards and material,(we can understand) they just have to make their system running with the drivers included in the cds coming with the material (a recurrent problem of Linux). And do not pretend it is impossible, please.
User do not care about this open source war about drivers. ATi had developed drivers for linux, (and given sources) and linux devs had made everything for the user not able to install them and get his AMD graphic card working. It is unfriendly, near injurious for AMD and their customers.
Remember, i had spend 20 minutes to get my Seven perfectly working, just gave 3 DVD/CDs, and let say: 10 clicks to install or answer questions. And the same guy was not able in a week of painful work to get a kubuntu running. At the end, i was just laughing at each new problem: Just ridiculous.

[jpenguin]

Re: Kubuntu 10 & 11 does not install

You do not need to do that. You can usually install the proprietary drive via the GUI. You may not even need to to install it, the FOSS ATI Driver is actually quit good- what exact card do you have. As for the rest of your problems, I am sorry to say this but it sounds like a classic PEBKAC error. The proprietary ATI driver doesn't handle kernel updates too well. Your wrong about users not carting about FOSS drivers.
You should install linux yourself- if you can't figure out how to use the installer, you should not be using linux. You should also know how to give a proper bug report; we would all be willing to help get it working if you gave us more if. But, I don't think you want this to work; I think you just want something to complain about

[ardvark71]

Re: Kubuntu 10 & 11 does not install

Just have a look at this, just to set a driver for my graphic card ?
http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/ati.run
http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/catalyst
Are those guys serious ? It is just INSANE ! Are-we in 2011 ?
As long you are in a graphical interface, everything has to be done in a graphical (and easy) way.

Hi....

I understand your frustration, I've been there before with trying to get stuff to install and/or work correctly in Linux.

I would agree that many users (and potential users) don't care about open source vs. proprietary. When it comes to achieving decent, usable graphics, I don't. I use what works and works well.

I also agree with your point above, I would like to see Linux become a lot less dependent upon command line operations to get things done, although I've seen improvement in this area in the past few years. With Windows, it's rare for the average user to even look at cmd.exe, if ever. This would be a another way for Linux to become more competitive with Microsoft along with creating an across-the-board, simple installer for software like MSI, that would take care of any and all types of packages seamlessly. If there are dependencies that are needed, the installer would download and install them as well. The goal would be as it is for Windows, "Point, click, install, it works," with no strange error messages.

I think it's possible.

Regards...

[Zhao]

Re: Kubuntu 10 & 11 does not install

Somewhere in this forum I once found how to install a driver from the ATI site, using this code in a command line (replacing of course what is inside the <>:

sudo sh <path to driver>/<driver will be named like ati.blah blah .run

It works, and its a graphical install and all. I don't know what happens if the kernel is updated later, however if this proprietary driver is installed through the hardware drivers option in *buntu (much more easier than from ATI site), its ok to update the kernel (at least the updates that come from the official repositories). If the ATI driver is not good, well, blame ATI since it's drivers are not that good even for Windows.

As for Kubuntu not working good, you may try other distro with a different kernel version, but if your hardware is too recent, it might be problematic in all other distros because the kernel just might not support it yet. If you're not in the mood to try other distros and learn how they work, or simply nothing works, apparently you seem to be fine with Windows 7 so have fun with it and be happy

[de_koraco]

Re: Kubuntu 10 &amp; 11 does not install

blabla... As a dev, i would never publish such a garbage... blabla

You install Kubuntu, hook it up to the internet, a pop up comes out to say you need an ATI driver, you click OK, it installs. If you weren't able to follow such complicated instructions, you're either lying, or your "dev" skills suck. Which makes your rant especially humorous.

[jpenguin]

Re: Kubuntu 10 &amp; 11 does not install

You will most likely have a few problems, if toy use the ATI driver directly; you will have the best luck using

jockey-kde

if jockey has old drivers, and you want new ones- you should generate *.deb's from the installer

[esperado]

Re: Kubuntu 10 &amp; 11 does not install

My reply to all.

First, remember (and imagine) i'm a pure newbie in Linux. With no ideas of how it works, Lost in all those strange names and structures for a window's user. No idea of what is a distro, a source, a depository and how to get them and install. No idea of what means TTY, or Xserver and how to deal with configuration files or Linux command lines.
Just wanted to install Kubutu to try-it, using a CD, and a mouse. (We are in 2012)

In fact i am able, now, after, imagine, 13 DAYS, to get the proprietary ATI driver from AMD site (the only good one) working. (2mn and 2 clics for the same work in seven and XP)
And to boot from Seven to Kubuntu, with near no difference between the two desktops (amazing)

The story:
On the 11.04 first install: System crached !
tried 10.04 : no network.
My screens were not detected by the tool in KDE's "configuration" screen and nothing was possible to be set in vesa or fglrx.
The proprietary driver suggested via the GUI is a miss: Black screen under all versions.

Installs, Uninstalls, upgrades, tries, googling, command lines, sudos: 13 DAYS.
If you use the ati driver automaticaly installed with "sudo path/driver...run" (droping the icon in a sudo Konsole), you get in 10.04 or 10.10 an administrative tool witch asks a password, then never open. You see your screens in the 'not administrative' ATI tool, but you cant configure them!
if you generate *.deb's from the installer it means nothing, because the KDE configuration tool still pretends you have only one screen !
Most of the tips you have given in this thread does not work. The *only thing* witch works: and *only in 11.04* is the proprietary driver from AMD installed by himself.
And the 11.04 does not work on my system out of the box. Only after upgrading from the 10.10.
And, when you got a black or broken screen, the "safe graphic" tool in the boot's options DOES NOT WORK (does nothing but refresh).
I have a very exotic configuration. Imagine: An ATI graphic card 'MSI 6850 cyclone' and, what the hell, TWOO screens !

That is the frightening story of my fist try of Kubuntu. I had no help on French forums (do not use ATI bla bla). seen hundreds of "was not able", "fail to", "Error in..." "not allowed to", "Segmentation fault" messages, TTY, black screens, bugs and bugs each second on my way.

All that, because there is no script in Kubuntu able to detect my video card, install automatically the: *GOOD" driver, and give a *working* tool to set the screens in "configuration" when an ATI card is plugged ?
And not enough documentation on the AMD site about versions and distros.
Ridiculous.

So, my conclusion is : SHAME ON CANNONICAL. (and never talk-me about X-server again).

You thing what you want about my ability as a developer, i do not care (remember i'm brand new in Linux desktops). One thing is for sure, i would never publish such a junk (an operating system with a so painful way to set screens and graphic card) . Hate bugs and have an obsession about ergonomic. I'm sure that a lot of you are very expert in setting and configuring via command lines, The reason of your ability: Linux is far from being a 'mass' operating system. And will stay confidential (in percent) as long it will need such an ability.

And, if you talk me about RTFM, distros are so many, so different, that you are lost in Google, and most of the tips you can find here or here are not appropriate to your situation and just crash YOUR distro or does not work.
Now, of course, i'm able to write by hand the Xorg.conf, and to set this #&%$ing driver in a minute. I'm not proud of it, do not like to get any knowledge in such stupid things! Do not like either to use command lines when i'm in a graphical environment.
I'm am proud of one thing: i was able to install a Kubuntu with an ati card all by myself ;-)
That's just my story, My neighbour has not the same: He tried, see that it does not worked at first reboot, and stayed stuck to windows ("Linux is too complicated, dedicated to specialists").
And all that, just because so few lines of code missing)
M$ will continue to win Giga dollars for a long time .

[jpenguin]

Re: Kubuntu 10 &amp; 11 does not install

The reason windows may work better on your computer is not Linux's fault it is because the companies won't write drivers for linux.

We all started same as you,

No idea of what means TTY, or Xserver and how to deal with configuration files or Linux command lines.

but one way or another we learned

Even if you are going to dump linux, please tell us your specs (CPU, CPU, Mobo...)

[esperado]

Re: Kubuntu 10 &amp; 11 does not install

Even if you are going to dump linux, please tell us your specs (CPU, CPU, Mobo...)

No i quite love My kubuntu, now it works ;-)

My computer:
MB: Asus P8Z68 V-pro
CPU: Intell LGA1155 i5-2500k
GPU: MSI R6850 cyclone (ATI)
2 LCD screens (1280 1024, 16801050)

HDD WD black Caviar 1TO on sata3 intel ports (difficult to set for windows, instant with Kubuntu)
Partitions
Primary:
10gb NTFS (Mbr, boot menu, swap files for seven and Xp) Can-i use a file on it on it for Linux 's swap ?)
60GB NTFS :Seven Ultimate (64bits)
50GB NTFS : XP pro sp3 (32 bits)
Extended:
30GB EXT4 Kubuntu 11.04 x86_64(no swap file, grub inside)
100GB NTFS (programs for Seven and XP)
700GB: NTFS datas and user files, uploads, configurations, application datas, preferences etc... for windows (it grows with time).

One thing is amusing, i had organised the programs in the launch menus of windows, before installing Kubuntu, exactly the way there where in kubuntu out of the box. (by usage, internet, configuration etc...)

[jpenguin]

Re: Kubuntu 10 &amp; 11 does not install

wow, quite the computer you have there

The "Radeon HD 6850" is quite a new card, I can see how the FOSS druver m8ight not like it so much...

[esperado]

Re: Kubuntu 10 &amp; 11 does not install

wow, quite the computer you have there

Thanks, it is overclocked at 4.6Ghz (31° on normal work, 60° 4 cores at 100% load, air cooled, amazing), and the graphic card up to 960Mhz under windows.
Better than my (very) old one (A7N8X +athlon 2500+) , but as well obsolete in 6 month, i'm sure ;-)

The "Radeon HD 6850" is quite a new card, I can see how the FOSS druver m8ight not like it so much...

for the moment, the one from AMD seems perfect (and can see the 4 outputs). Just it lacks of tool to overclock-it, as in windows.
AMD seems to develop good drivers for Linux, now ?
That i can't understand is, why there is no tool in Kubuntu's cd (don't knows other distros) detecting the card and setting the Good driver, and, in case it don't know the hardware, the last AMD driver automatically (adding to the PPA, downloding and installing before first reboot, and replacing in configuration the "screen tool" by a link to the AMD's configuration tool )

Or, before, and one's for ever, asking-you to plug-in a CD, like windows does. It will help the users, more users for Linux = more drivers from the hardware manufacturers = more users etc...;
I can see now some Linux drivers in the Cd. i was never asked to use them !
(Can yet see Linux drivers in more and more Cds).

Anyway, nothing would be better than the "buggy" one(for my hardware from Kubuntu , isn't ?

Well, now, i'm VERY happy with this kubuntu. Not so solid (one little freeze of the desktop) than seven, (just a feeling) And i appreciate the ability to get and install so easily new softwares.
And the ability to can develop and modifie the code (open) to my tastes in the future, after learning...
A new Linux addict ?

[de_koraco]

Re: Kubuntu 10 &amp; 11 does not install

OK, my bad, I mistook you for one of the trolls. Your problem with Linux is, and will be, your ATi card. I know, because I have one too. AMD publishes a version of Catalyst (fglrx in localspeak) for the X Windows system (the graphical interface used in Linux) about a week or two before an Ubuntu release. Then it is packaged and shipped with Ubuntu, to use with the "Additional drivers", or "jockey" utility. Problems arise when you want a newer version of the driver, because the one that ships with Ubuntu gets old after a month.

The recurse is to go to the AMD site and manually download and install the latest version, which, as you've noticed, is not necessarily the easiest thing. A word of warning, when you do updates in the future, and you see that your kernel is going to be replaced, you'll need to uninstall the driver, update the kernel, reboot, install the driver again, and reboot again. That's a side effect of the manual install process unfortunately. Plus, your AMD/ATI card is never gonna work as well as it does in Windows, you'll see.

You can view your GPU troubles as a kind of rigid initiation ritual into Linux. Nowadays, there's like two or three things that are bound to give you trouble when running Linux, and one of them are AMD/ATI cards. Pretty much everything else is bound to work out of the box. AMD simply doesn't make its Linux drivers as good as it does with Windows. On the bright side, unlike Nvidia, it has published specs for its cards, and has even hired two new developers to work on the open source drivers, which are really coming along nicely, but not as nicely for some cards - especially newer ones like your is.

[esperado]

Re: Kubuntu 10 &amp; 11 does not install

OK, my bad, I mistook you for one of the trolls....
You can view your GPU troubles as a kind of rigid initiation ritual into Linux.

;-)
Linux devs love to shoot themself in the foot, building a very complicated (looking nice) car and forgetting to deliver the weel ?

The recurse is to go to the AMD site and manually...

Thanks for the tip. For my next update: be sure i will write a script to do-it automatically ;-)
I'm afraid I will have forgotten in a week all of those "uninstall.sh, locate, -f, -r, initiall' , just i will remember sudo to continue to own my computer ;-) At least i hope so.

... Or never upgrade ? I'm so tired.

....for the X Windows system (the graphical interface used in Linux)...

Oh, no, please, never make-me remember the name of this graphical interface and the location of the X11 folder....

[jpenguin]

Re: Kubuntu 10 &amp; 11 does not install

I just had jockey install fglrx for my Radeon HD 4890 1GB. My mac has a Radeon HD 4670 256MB; and performance is actually better. I've got to respect ATI/AMD for helping the FOSS driver, but do wish they made a better binary driver,

[de_koraco]

Re: Kubuntu 10 &amp; 11 does not install

Thanks for the tip. For my next update: be sure i will write a script to do-it automatically ;-)
I'm afraid I will have forgotten in a week all of those "uninstall.sh, locate, -f, -r, initiall' , just i will remember sudo to continue to own my computer ;-) At least i hope so.

... Or never upgrade ? I'm so tired.

...
Oh, no, please, never make-me remember the name of this graphical interface and the location of the X11 folder....

I don't know what you mean by automatically. You have to go to the AMD site, and fill out the form which presents you with the driver version recommended for you. After that, is's as simple as right clicking the downloaded file to go to the permissions and making it executable, and then running the install script. On my last install, I even got a GUI. I'm not quite sure what the process you went through was, but I've also had my share of trouble with my card, so if stuff is working, it's probably better not to touch it.

The additional driver utility is actually a big selling point of the Ubuntu family, and most of the time it works great. The problem with ATI cards is really not down to Linux devs, but AMD and their not so stellar support for binary drivers for Linux. I know a lot of Windows users have a tough time coming to terms with it, since support for Windows is much better, but that's just the way it is. That's not saying Linux is faultless, but this one doesn't fall on the devs hands, tehy're really doing the best they possibly can in the circumstances.